92. (S3E18) Setting Boundaries to Protect Your Passions with Stefanie Joy Muscat

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:00:03

Welcome to FINE is a 4-Letter Word, the podcast that empowers you to say fuck being fine. Tired of being stuck in a place where you say everything's fine when it's really not fine at all. You're not alone. I'm your host, Lori Saitz. I've been there too, and so have my guests. Here's a secret. All it takes is a conscious decision to change and then restructure beliefs so your actions take you in the right direction. That's where FINE is a 4-Letter Word comes in. Each week, you'll hear inspiring stories from people who have transformed their lives and businesses and practical tips and takeaways to move you from spinning in place to forward action so you can create a life of joy. Thanks for tuning in. Let's get started. Today. I'm eager to introduce you to Stefanie Joy Muscat. She's the founder and CEO of Bevara, a consultancy firm that specializes in helping mission driven organizations reach their full potential by implementing best business practices. Stefanie started her first museum at just six years old. I don't know what you were doing at six, but I certainly wasn't starting businesses yet. From that point on, she worked in museums or similar spaces. When Stefanie's roles as a museum director and parent felt incompatible, she built her own business from the ground up to meet her needs.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:01:40

Though her life was fine for a while, she eventually realized she'd created a business she now resented. She decided to shut it down and took a dream job in another state. That move gave her the opportunity to take a different type of sabbatical than you've heard about on previous shows. In this episode, you'll hear how her sabbatical time changed her perspective and allowed her to pursue personal interests and focus on all aspects of her health while continuing to get paid. If you think taking a sabbatical is out of reach or impractical, this one's for you. Listen to hear the fascinating story behind Barbara's name and logo, which is deeply rooted in an old Norse legend and serves as a nod to Stefanie's Swedish ancestry. Join me as we dive into Stefanie's story of how taking a step away allowed her to move from panic attacks, resentment and autopilot to recharged, grounded and a sense of home. Of course, you can go to Zen rabbit.com to get your copy of the Short Guide to Working Less and Living Better. Also known as the Five Easy Ways to Start Living a Sabbatical Life. You know what else you can get there. The newly revised and released How to Feel Comfortable, Confident and Courageous at Networking Events book. Look for the link that says Networking at the top of the home page or find the link in the show notes.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:03:19

Hello and welcome to FINE is a 4-Letter Word. My guest today is Stefanie Joy Muscat. Welcome to the show. Good morning or good afternoon, Lori. Yes. Or whatever time it is. Wherever you are. Exactly. I'm so I'm so excited to have this conversation with you. And one of the things that I do want to remember to get into, although not right this second, is, is the logo for your for your company because I love that story and it's so cool. And I just want all of my listeners to hear it, too. So Absolutely. We'll get there. We'll get there. Yeah. Yeah. We love about Ravens. Yep. Yes. Yeah. Very cool. All right. So but first, let's start with at the beginning, which is what were the values and beliefs that you were raised with that contributed to you becoming who you who you became as especially as a young adult? I was raised with the value of giving back to the community. My father was in the government and non-profit sectors, and I think he was probably the greatest influence on the young adult that I became. I watched him lead these organizations and make changes and have a positive impact where we were living.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:04:36

And he also took me to lots of museums, lots of battlefields, lots of castles, lots of fortifications. If it had something to do with history, he took me there. He actually had written a book about Michelangelo's fortifications that was published, I think, when he was in his 20s. So that love of history and culture and that dedication to giving back really were core values that I think led to the young adult that I became and eventually me landing in the nonprofit world that I landed in.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:05:10

Yeah. So were you volunteering for organizations as a kid?

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:05:17

I was actually the very first museum I ever volunteered for was the Dennos Museum Center, which is still in Traverse City, Michigan. And I was maybe 14, 15, and I was volunteering at the front desk. Everybody, all the other volunteers were like over 75. So I really stood out on the front desk. And at that time I had an algebra teacher who was collecting Inuit art for the museum, and it was the only algebra teacher that actually did any well with because because we spent most of our time talking about Inuit art and then a little bit about algebra. So I actually got a good grade in that class, which was unusual for me in algebra. But, but that, that really continued and sparked my love of museums. It also sparked a love of Inuit art. I now have my own collection of Inuit art, and every time I'm in in Quebec or Iceland or Greenland or further north in Maine, I typically will pick up a piece. So that was another milestone, that experience. And I was there from all four years of high school. And then when I went off to college at Michigan State, I volunteered at the Michigan State University Museum, which then later became my first job.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:06:26

So from a very young age, I've always been volunteering, actually created my first museum when I was five, I think it was 5 or 6. We were living in Connecticut and I we had been we had visited a museum and I had seen that they were putting numbers on objects. And I didn't know what a curator was. I didn't know what accession numbers were. I just saw that they were numbers. So I took a magic marker and wrote numbers in my five year old hand on the bottom of some of my mother's most expensive and precious Scottish antiques, and then charged my friend so devalued some of the feeling. Oh geez, antiques. But it was my very first museum and I took my I think I made maybe $3 and I took it to 711 and put it in their little a donation container. And yeah. And so even at five, I somehow knew that a museum had value and shouldn't be free. So if I had put this together, folks, folks would pay an admission to go. So it has just been ingrained in me for forever. It's just it's it's part of my pulse. It's part of my soul.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:07:38

All right. So I have to ask now, did your mom get mad at you for doing that?

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:07:42

Initially, my parents were mad, but then they couldn't help but just think that that it was cute. And and my father, being such the history buff, that he was he just he just loved it. And I think he probably gave me the most quarters for the most tours.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:07:58

So that is hilarious.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:08:02

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, That's how it all began.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:08:06

That's how it all began. And then how did it how did it proceed? So did you did you start out working? So you said your first job was at a museum And then were you were all of your jobs at a museum or did you end up in corporate at some point?

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:08:20

I didn't end up in corporate at any point, so all my jobs were in museums or similar places. I was at the MSU Museum, I was at the Ipswich Museums, I was at the New England Aquarium. Um, all of all of my work had been in the museum field. And then I opened up my own business in 2004. I had been a museum director. I had a little baby girl who's now 23, and I wanted to be a mom but wanted to work as well. And the demands of my board, of being being a director were just not in congruence with being a mom. And so I took the leap at like 30 years old to start my own business. And I didn't have a business plan. I did all the things that you were not supposed to do. I had no business plan. I had really no idea where my first client was going to come from. I didn't even know what the services were going to be. I just jumped in and went to a New England Museum Association conference and started talking to people. You know, what do you need? I can I can do that. So that's how it all started.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:09:26

So I want to I want to touch on that for a second because you didn't have anything that you're supposed to have. Yeah. And but who makes up these rules? That is, this is what you're supposed to do because you created a successful business without the things that most people would say you need to start a successful business. And I kind of did the same thing when I started mine. But like, you don't really need a business plan unless you're going to a bank to get financing. I agree. Like you need some kind of clarity around what you'd like to do. Um. But I think people get hung up on. Well, I don't have all the things. Absolutely. And I just wanted to stop here for a second to say, like if you're thinking of starting your own business or doing anything, it doesn't have to be a business. Think about what do I really need?

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:10:22

I completely agree.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:10:23

And I versus what people tell me I need.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:10:26

Yeah, exactly. And I, I use myself as an example. I taught business to college students, and I know that it wasn't the standard business professor line to say, you know what, some of this stuff you're not going to need because I do think I've seen this with entrepreneurs and I've seen this with people starting nonprofits. They get stuck around. We have to have this done. We have to check all these boxes and they get frozen in this place where they can't move forward because they're trying to check all these boxes. And sometimes you just need to start and it's a messy start and that's okay. You just have to start. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:11:03

It. And get some forward action. And then you adjust like I it was somebody who was explaining it to me about like when you're in a car and you put where you want to go on in the GPS until you start moving, it can't adjust.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:11:20

Exactly. That's a great analogy.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:11:22

As long as you're sitting in the in the driveway or in the parking space, nothing can happen. Right? Right. You actually can't tell You.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:11:30

Move the car before it actually kicks in. And and that, I think, is so, so true. I mean, you and and so many people are just stuck at the steering wheel waiting for it to say something. And it's not going to say something until you get your foot off the gas and and take that step. And actually, some of the messiest starts that I've seen with businesses and nonprofits have been the most successful because they did just dive in and and you can adjust and once you know what you want to be then you can slowly start to build in some, you know, build in some strategic planning and business planning and and start thinking about other things. But just, just start, just, just just get out there. And you have to become comfortable with the discomfort because there's going to be so much discomfort when you start a business, when you start a nonprofit. And I think people freeze and want to check all these boxes because they somehow think it's going to make it more comfortable. But it's not. Even if you have all those boxes checked, being an entrepreneur is never going to be comfortable. It's.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:12:31

Right, Right. Yeah. And especially new entrepreneurs don't understand that. Yeah. That that's what's going that's how it's going to be. It's not like that. There's a clear path.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:12:41

Exactly.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:12:42

And if you like you said, if you have all the boxes checked, then it's going to be smooth sailing. No, it never is. And I when we say that, we're not saying that to discourage anybody, just to to prepare you to be like, okay, this is this is what it is. You're this is the ride. And it's more fun than you can imagine. And it's crazier than you can imagine It is.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:13:05

And I had I signed my first client with I only had a company name. I had done a DBA at the local town hall, didn't really have a logo, just a just a company name. And I signed my first client. And while I was working with that client, I started to figure out, okay, this is what I know how to do. This is what Rivera can do well. So I took that first client and figured out, okay, these are going to be the services. And then I started marketing based on the success of that first client. And so really it's I want to encourage folks who who are thinking about becoming an entrepreneur just just to step into it. You you don't even have to have have a business name, work on a project, volunteer on a project, see if it's a good fit. But, you know, just start and get that forward momentum and don't think you have to have everything beautifully written in this 20 page business plan. Like you said, that's great for funding and angel investors, but for most entrepreneurs, it's get that first client and and evolve from there.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:14:08

Yes. Yes. Such good advice. So your your business actually exploded?

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:14:13

It did. So I was expecting it to be just this little kitchen table venture and it exploded. And in between 2004 and 2018, it grew substantially and it grew to have a staff. It grew to have clients in the US, Canada, Europe and China. And I was traveling quite a bit and I would just take my daughter with me. My husband was also commuting overseas, so I started getting clients where he was going so that I so that our family could travel together. And it just it, it became a business and, and becoming a a business rather than being an independent contractor. Those those were two different things to me. And one day I woke up and. Oh, my goodness. Where I was. I was running a staff in managing a business and doing all these things that I never imagined that I would. I thought I would just be literally at the kitchen table working on projects for clients until my daughter maybe graduated high school. That was the initial thought back in 2004, but all of that. But the universe had other plans.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:15:25

Yeah, right. And so. Well, since the show is called, FINE is a 4-Letter Word, you got to a point where everything was not fine.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:15:35

Everything was not fine. Oh, my word. Fine is such. Oh, I was in 2018 and January of 2018, I hit a brick wall going about a thousand miles an hour and had this awakening. And it was actually one of my college students who kind of pushed me in into that wall. I was teaching a course and we were having some conversation in one of my college students, said, Professor Muscat, what would you do if you didn't own Bavaria? And I had never thought of that. By 2018, I had begrudgingly decided that Bavaria would probably be the only job that I have. I had been telling everybody that I feel fine. I was really falling out and falling out of love with my business, but I didn't want to admit it because this is something that I had created. It was like another child. And no parent wants to say that they don't love their child.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:16:33

And right. And it becomes your identity. It does.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:16:35

It does. There was no clear, healthy boundary between myself and Rivera. And there was. And I didn't realize until I took a sabbatical. And looking back now how much resentment I had for Baviera and and I was just on autopilot. I was taking on everybody who wanted to work with us. I said yes to I was adapting our services so that it was all about the bottom line. How much money can we get? And I wasn't enjoying it anymore. And when the student asked me this, I stopped dead in my tracks because I had never thought for from 2004 to 2018, the thought it never crossed my mind about what would I do if I didn't work at Rivera. And I. I thought about it and I said, well, I would probably go back to where it where it all started, which is sociocultural anthropology and, um, and that's where I began my career doing work with some native tribes out in the Southwest. That's what I studied. That's what I had. The work in Bavaria that I loved the most is when we worked with various tribes on traditional lifeways. So I said, Well, that's, that's what I would do. And, and then I gave my class an assignment because I was just completely, completely rattled. I just I was just totally rattled by that. And. Yeah.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:18:00

Wait, wait, wait. That's an option. Yeah. I never considered that. That could even be a possibility.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:18:07

Yeah. Yeah. I can walk away from something that I created and that, for me, just wasn't computing because I just felt like I was in this bad marriage with, with my company, um, and that I couldn't, you know, slightly emotionally abusive between the two of us that I couldn't get out of.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:18:25

Well, it's funny that you say that because that actually, in some of my listeners might have heard me say this before, but when I had my first business and I was in a similar situation, not it wasn't exploding and creating tons of revenue, it was actually a little bit the opposite. I wasn't able to scale it though, the way I had intended. And a friend said to me, This is like watching you in an abusive relationship.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:18:49

It is. It is, Yeah. It absolutely is. And other people outside of me tell me out outside of the company now say, oh, we could all see it look like somebody could have mentioned this to me.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:19:03

But you probably wouldn't have paid attention at the time. You weren't ready.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:19:07

I would have said, I am fine. Yeah. And everything is fine. Rivera is fine. I'm fine. We're all good. We're all fine. He was fine. Was my favorite word then. And while the kids were doing an assignment, I opened up my laptop and there was a headhunter who was looking for somebody to create an Indian market as director of advancement at the Abbe Museum, which is dedicated to the Native American communities here in Maine. And I just got all these butterflies, and it was the first time that I had had that kind of professional butterflies before. And I said, Well, I'll this looks interesting. I'll, I'll, I'll respond, I'll send in my resume. And after that, I started getting a whole bunch of other recruiters asking about other positions and started doing interviews. And I didn't even know what exactly I was doing. I just sort of subconsciously just knew that I needed a change, but consciously wasn't quite admitting it yet. So I was just going through all these motions. I ended up getting a few job offers and took the one in Maine, which is where I am now, on Mount Desert Island in Maine, and worked for a couple of years setting up the Abbe Museum Indian Market, which became an award winning Indian market for Bar Harbor here in Maine. And it wasn't until I had completed that experience that I realized it was just the sabbatical that I needed. And I know it's an unconventional sabbatical because I went and worked and did something else. But for me, it was it was just what I needed at that time.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:20:50

Allow me a quick moment to thank you for tuning in to FINE is a 4-Letter Word. If you're enjoying the show, please take a second to hit the follow button so you don't miss an episode. And if you haven't already, I'd love it if you would leave me a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or Google Podcasts. Your feedback helps the show reach more listeners like you. FINE is a 4-Letter Wordis available on all major podcasting platforms, so no matter where you listen, you can stay up to date with the latest episodes. Now let's get back into the conversation. It's amazing to me. I mean, really? Or like just oh, is the best word I can use here in how the universe works that that question was posed to you. The opportunity showed up on your computer at the same time. And then how the event that started the ball rolling.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:21:51

It did, yeah. Because because that happened in January. And in my first day here in Maine was May 1st. So it was a very fast. Yeah.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:21:59

But, but even the instantaneous of the question was asked. You opened your computer and there is an opportunity. Yeah. And that is how it can work. It can and often does. And it's still awe inspiring to me how those events transpire. And then going to another point you just mentioned about taking kind of an unconventional sabbatical in that you were still working because a lot of the conversations we've been having about sabbaticals is this segment season, whatever of the show is, people are like, Yeah, but I can't afford to do that. And that's not you were still working and bringing in income, but it was kind of a sabbatical anyway because why?

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:22:42

It was a sabbatical because I took a break from Rivera and I focused on one activity that was something that I was passionate about. I also had a change of scenery, which was for me, very important. There were some jobs that were a little closer to where we lived in Massachusetts, and I, I would have had similar results. But for me coming up to Maine, moving to the island, having a change of scenery made a big difference. And during my time creating Indian Market, I it gave me space because I wasn't 24 over seven an entrepreneur. I wasn't living and breathing, being being an entrepreneur. I had time to go hiking. I had time to reconnect to friends. I had time to have lunch with friends. I had time to really invest in lots of thinking, lots of just just being and doing and not having the pressures of being an entrepreneur and having to make salaries for for individuals and having to do all these things and and in that space, I, I started to realize what I was really most passionate about and really came to a recognition that I had fallen out of love with Bévéra. And I was able to say that out loud, that, you know, it just the last 2 or 3 years, our our relationship wasn't working. It just it just wasn't it wasn't healthy for for either of us. And and it got me to a place where I was stronger mentally. I was having panic attacks when I started at at the Abbe Museum.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:24:23

Those dissipated. The on my level of stress came came down. I was able, until the pandemic hit, able to do some personal travel. And it just the whole experience just decompressed me to a point where I could see clearly. And I think that's something very important in a sabbatical is that you give yourself time and space to take some of the fog out of your eyes, sort of the fog of war when you're in the thick of working and having that, that, that time and space and grace for yourself to to recognize where you made mistakes and what you want to do differently, that that's an important component of a sabbatical and and I think it can be done working there I see every day opportunities that are very project specific and and I found something that was specific to my background. It was a specific project. I finished that project and so I was able to just focus on that one thing. And I think others can could, could potentially find find projects to do that themselves. If they can't, I certainly couldn't have afforded to take two years off. So, so having that income, even though it was a greatly reduced income from what I had at Rivera, having any income during that time period was very helpful because we had a daughter going off to college. So it was it was helpful to have that.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:25:47

Yeah, absolutely. You just said that so beautifully about how a sabbatical, what a sabbatical really is and it doesn't necessarily require not working and just sitting. It's that creating that space for yourself, giving yourself, allowing yourself grace and giving yourself the time and. And. Well, I guess, again, space to recharge. Yes. You know, by doing those things that bring you joy. Hiking and. Thinking and reading and whatever it is that actually recharges your battery.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:26:27

The first thing I had to do at the start of the sabbatical was give myself permission to. Feel this way. And that was the hardest thing to overcome. And it took several months and some great coaches and some good therapy to to get to a point where I could give myself permission to to really dig into how I was feeling to to share it to that, that I was worthy enough to be visible in, in how I was feeling in that moment during the sabbatical. And that was a huge growth opportunity for me, one that I wasn't expecting when I started working at the museum. But it it led to comfort and a better understanding of who I am. It also led to better boundaries, led to this this velvet rope policy where I, I keep certain things on the other side of that rope now and, and just led to a very different person who then when I came back to Bavaria, Bavaria was a very different company and very, very different company from when it was in 2018. But lots of that was I had given myself permission really, to have my own back and and really focus on me, which was something that that took a little bit of time to get comfortable with. And and I think a lot of folks would feel that way, that you just feel this discomfort when you start looking inward of.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:28:00

Yes. Which is why so many people avoid it. Yeah, because it's not comfortable to do it. And yet, if you would like to get to the other side to where things are way better, you you have to wade through that yucky stuff. Yes. In the middle. And I appreciate that you brought up that you worked with other people, that you had coaches and whether it's a coach or a counselor or a therapist or and all those people actually serve different purposes. But that is not necessarily something that you could do or would would want to do on your own again, because it's uncomfortable and those people can hold your hand and kick your ass at the same time. Whereas if you were doing it on your own, you're like, Oh, this doesn't feel good. I'm not going to do it. And you just step away and stay stuck in that rut and the people around you will gladly help you stay in that rut because then it's that's where they. They feel comfortable interacting with you. Yep. So, so yeah, the second the the getting help for somebody to give you a hand up.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:29:08

Basically finding finding some container that you can be in that will support you and lift you up while you're doing mindset work. And that container can take a variety of shapes. I know for some of my friends it's it's yoga and their yoga teacher. For some it's therapist, for some it's life coaches, for some it's human design. There's all sorts of different things out there. But whatever container feels most comfortable to you, that's that's important. And I think you made a good point that it can't always be your spouse and your friends because they because they're they get used to you in a certain way. And sometimes having difficult conversations, you don't always get necessarily the honest feedback from your spouse or you know.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:29:51

So and it's not that they don't want to help you. They don't necessarily have the capacity exactly to do it. They're too close. Exactly. Yeah. They don't see your blind spots either, which is the whole reason for having especially a coach, is that they can see your blind spots. They have a, oh man, what's the word I'm looking for? They, they don't have a vet like man. What words are evading me? You know when you see something without.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:30:24

Judgments or they're they're more objective.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:30:29

That's the word. Thank you very much. Jeez. Yes, They can see a more objectively and therefore be more useful in their recommendations. So, okay, so so you went through these years. You you had that sabbatical time. You got the. The chance to recharge. And you went back to Bavaria?

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:30:53

I did. Which kind of surprises me still to this day that I went back to Bavaria. So Bavaria has been back now for 18 months. And I came back and I knew it had to be different. I knew that if that that that if I was going to do this, it couldn't be the way it was before because it had to be a healthy partnership. And so I looked at our services and I cut our services down to three core core services. I cut out being a college professor. I enjoy teaching. But but it had run its course. I had done it for 13 years. And and it was something else that was eating up my time. And it was something else that was, you know, grading papers and everything that I had just grown, grown, tired of it. So I gave that up and in, in reconfigured Bavaria so that it aligned, so it aligned with my core values. And I knew in particular that that nonprofit planning and management, art culture and the creative economy and executive mentorship were the three areas that I was most passionate about and where if I looked back, those were the projects where I knew I brought the most value.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:32:18

And it was not only my knowledge that brought value, it was my excitement, right? And I looked back and looked at other projects. I was like, Oh, you know, I just went through the motions. These these weren't successful projects. From my point of view. They were for the client. None of our clients knew. I was thinking this pre pre 2018, they thought it was all good, but I certainly wasn't enjoying myself. So I relaunched Bavaria and I did it as a bit of a test. I was like, Well, you know, I'm feeling this need to, to, to go back. I started seeing ravens everywhere, like, okay, I, I think I'm in a different head space now. I'm going to try this and I'm going to give it a year and see how this works. Can I do this differently? Because I wasn't 100% sure that I could do it differently. I knew I had changed, but I was afraid I'd just slip back into old habits.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:33:12

Right. Which is really easy to do once you get back in that same environment. It is. It's easy to fall back into it. Yeah.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:33:19

So I actually I brought back Alejandra De Feo, who had worked with me from 2012 to 2018, and she was the only Rivera staffer who I wanted to bring back this go around because I knew she had the same company values, which is empathy, authenticity, really providing a high level of of service. And we actually now one of the things which our clients talk about the most, which is interesting, is how Bavaria creates a container for these nonprofits to undergo transformational change in their organization. And one of my clients said that to me recently. And then I realized that that is actually what I was doing with myself during the sabbatical. And just this this whole full circle chill came over me that, that, that I was able to use my my time away from Bavaria to gain some skills that I didn't have previous to that and learn a lot about organizational change. And working with individuals have very different conversations now when I do executive mentoring than I would have pre 2018, much more empathetic, much more in in a belief that organizations are made up of human beings and that nonprofits are living, breathing or organic things with all these human beings and all these human beings have different knowledge and different skills and different talents and passions that they're bringing. But it's still a group of human beings. And whenever you get a group of human beings together. It. It can be sometimes difficult. And navigating that and letting nonprofit organizations navigate that in a way that allows them to grow and take advantage of the positive aspects of that is something that now we're really focused on. And that was something that really I hadn't thought about before my sabbatical.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:35:18

Yeah. So in a way, not in a way essential to your current success, that sabbatical was essential. It was to your current success, not just to your, your, your mind, you know, getting your mind in the right place and becoming healthier physically, emotionally, mentally, all of those things. But for your business, for your career, for your professional life, that sabbatical was essential, which is interesting because I was talking the conversation I had with Christina Langdon, which published a few weeks ago. She was talking about the that essential that asking yourself the question instead of I can't afford to take a sabbatical or how can I like it's not going to be possible to ask yourself the question more What if you don't? What are you sacrificing if you don't? Yes. And this is a great example of maybe at the time you didn't know it. Obviously, at the time you didn't know it. But but looking back, you would have sacrificed your success today.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:36:31

Absolutely. Yep. And we actually I looking back at the 18 months we had the best the best five fiscal quarters in, in Bavaria's history. Hm.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:36:46

Interesting. And yet you have your most relaxed running it now. Yep.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:36:52

Yep. And and it's showing in the quality of product. It's showing in our bottom line and it's showing up in our bottom line is what convinced me that this has to be part of my being, part of my fabric. And so I am I plan to take a week mini sabbatical, a week or two mini sabbatical every year, and it's just me traveling somewhere by myself. This year I'm going to an archeology dig out out in the Four Corners, which is still a tremendous passion of mine. But I'm going to go dig in the dirt for a week and not take my laptop and not think about work and. And I'll have those ten days to do a mini sabbatical. And now the question for me, like you were saying, is, if I don't take this time, I don't want a repeat of what happened before. And so I now know that taking time, taking even, even a long weekend, just building breaks into my life and into my schedule and building in time to really have thoughtful work, really to to do thoughtful work is absolutely critical to Bavaria's success, that if I'm relaxed and I'm feeling whole and I'm taking care of myself, then Bavaria will be healthier and we have a much healthier partnership Now. It's yeah, yeah, it's.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:38:10

It's When you just said you weren't taking your computer. The thought went through my head. Wait, you're not taking your computer, are you? Even an American? Like, you know, like, what do you mean you're not taking your computer? But. But no, really, truly.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:38:28

I will take an iPad, but for the cost.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:38:32

Again, examining the cost of not doing this is the cost is too great. It is.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:38:39

It is. And I haven't worked with nonprofit executive directors now where they are fighting the urge to use any of their vacation time and they are burnt out because they've burnt the candles at both ends. And I sit down with them and have a bit of a Let's walk to Jesus conversation about the return on investment if you burn out versus the return on investment. If you take care of yourself and you demonstrate that level of leadership to the rest of the staff, yes, that will improve your organization far, far more than you burning out and you having to leave because you have hit that wall. And so many nonprofit leaders are in that stage where they they they feel like that they can't take the time off. But what they don't recognize is that if they don't, then it's damaging to them and their staff and their organization. And so a lot of our a lot of executive mentoring turns into, you know what, let's let's look at numbers and the return on investment. Literally, let's let's look at the numbers. And if you were to leave or this staff person left and this program didn't happen because you were sick, you know what what does this look like? And we come to the conclusion that, yeah, you need to take take that week off and, and not think about work for that week. Mm.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:39:53

100%. Great point. We we've been talking about you mentioned the name Bavaria Bavaria throughout this conversation. So explain briefly what it means and then what your logo is, because I've just found it fascinating when you originally told me this story.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:40:14

So Bavaria is a Swedish word that means to protect and to keep. And all of our clients are doing that in some capacity. They are protecting and keeping knowledge. They are protecting and keeping their communities. That's that's core to nonprofit work. And Ravens are there because one of our early projects was in Iceland and we learned about the old Norse legend of Odin and his two Ravens Huginn and Muninn and Huginn and Muninn represent thought and memory, and they fly around the world every day to learn the news of the day and then bring it back to Odin. And so when we were.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:40:53

We kind of like the the north the. Old Internet.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:40:59

Yes, exactly. Exactly. They were the original Internet.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:41:03

The original. The OGs. Yes.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:41:06

That's exactly. I love that. And so we knew that we wanted I'm a Swedish ancestry. The having a Swedish name is a nod to my beloved Swedish grandmother. And so I knew that I wanted some other Norse items in the logo, a logo. And we worked with this brilliant artist who, when I told him the story of Huginn and Muninn and showed him, which you can see on our website, one of the ancient manuscripts that that's in the library in Reykjavik, he made these two beautiful ravens and the one on the left is Hogan. The one on the right is Muninn. They don't look exactly the same ones a little bit different than the other. And they both have in our minds here at Bévéra, they have personalities. And we what's been interesting is that since I started the company and even during my sabbatical there, there have been times where I see these two ravens and they'll come and land near me. And it's always been at interesting junctions in my life. And so I feel this connection now to these two two birds. And I feel very grateful for having taken this sabbatical because it has allowed me to more appreciate our brand, our our story, our history, um, and, and not resent it, which I was doing in 2018. I mean I look at at those Ravens now and, and I'm so grateful that I can look look at them with pride and not be like, oh God, this is I have to go to work again.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:42:35

Yeah, yeah. Which yeah, I mean that can happen with your own company, not just when you're working for someone else. What? So do you dance with the Ravens? What's your hype song?

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:42:45

So my hype song is is Unstoppable by Sia, and I do dance. When that comes on. Usually in the morning I'll take a shower while I'm getting ready. There. That song. I can't help but not move. So I yeah, that's a good one. Big proponent of just getting moving and and just feeling it and that that that song has been my hype song for the last 18 months since I restarted Varvara That's that's on a constant rotation.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:43:18

Love it Awesome. If someone wants to continue a conversation with you, how would they do that?

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:43:25

Well, they can go to our website, which is W-w-w dot Bavaria, Web.com, which is Bevara Web.com or they can email at hello at Bavaria. Web.com. Okay. And they can find us that way.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:43:43

All right, fantastic. I will put a link to that in the show notes as well as the link as I always do to the hype song. So if people want to get up and dance to that because that is a good one.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:43:53

It is. It is a great one that that will turn your mood around by by the end of that song. It is a good, good female power song.

Lori Saitz:

Speaker: 00:44:02

Cool. Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Stefanie Joy Muskat on FINE is a 4-Letter Word.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:44:09

Thank you.

Stefanie Joy Muscat:

Speaker: 00:44:14

Lori Saitz: Stefanie talked about having to force herself to take time to recharge. It sounds crazy when you say that out loud, but almost everyone I've talked to about this concept feels the same way. And once you do make yourself take time regularly, you'll see the ROI on that. Recharging time is extremely high. Here are today's key takeaways. Number one, so many people get stuck feeling like things must be done a certain way sometimes. Often the only way to get started is to just start. Let it be messy. You can clean things up along the way. Number two, you might think that taking a sabbatical is a luxury you can't afford. Well, guess what? A sabbatical doesn't mean you have to stop working. It's taking a break from your daily life and giving yourself the space to recharge and re-examine your life. That could mean changing the type of work you do. Number three, you can't operate a business that doesn't align with your core values. The only way that's going to play out is in burnout. The point of being a business owner is being able to do things on your own terms. So be okay with saying no to things that aren't a good fit and don't let anyone else tell you how to do it. Thanks for listening to FINE is a 4-Letter Word. If you've enjoyed the show, please follow and share it with a friend. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite platform to help others discover it too. You can find links to my socials on my website Zen rabbit.com. And before you go, take a moment to reflect on what you're grateful for today. Remember, you have the power to create a life you love, and I'm proud of you. Thanks for joining me. Take care.