127. Rage Against the Midlife with Kimberly (Kimby) Samson

Have you ever seen those memes that compare the co-stars of “The Firm”, Wilford Brimley looking elderly at age 56 and Tom Cruise looking young at age 56?

These memes show us that these days, people are aging much more gracefully, or at least not according to the same timetable they used to.

Did the timetable ever make sense to begin with?

Is there supposed to be a specific age where we begin to question whether Fine is a 4-Letter Word?

Kimberly, or Kimby Samson grew up without a lot of specific values. It was more like learning through modeling rather by teaching. Her parents showed her an example and she was expected to follow – there wasn’t a lot of conversation.

When it came time for her Bat Mitzvah, she was told she couldn’t have one, and she’d get a big wedding instead.

Oh, and did she – Kimby got the most fabulous, amazing wedding – as she says, the wedding of her mother’s dreams!

In this episode, I didn’t ask Kimby about that specific moment when she realized things weren’t “fine” – it was implied that since we were talking about the midlife crisis, especially as it pertains to women, hitting “midlife” is when we’re supposed to begin facing those questions.

For Kimby, it was finding she had done well in her career, in her great marriage and with her three wonderful children, and also seeing that she was bored.

Her journey was to find her mojo again. And then she wrote a guide to help you do the same. Her recently published book is appropriately called, F*CK THIS: Practical Advice To Get You Through Your Midlife Crisis.

In a moment, when you meet Kimby, you’ll get a new point of view about this midlife time.

You’re looking to push an easy button – “change your career”, “reconnect with your dreams” – and “take this pill”.

What if it’s not an easy button but more a matter of taking one small step at a time? Maybe instead of big milestone celebrations, make every moment a small party?

Allowing your curiosity to take you on a journey where one thing leads to the next and you discover things you’d never thought possible?

Kimby’s hype song is “Milkshake” by Kelis.

Resources:

Invitation from Lori:

If, like Kimby, everything in your life is good but you’re still bored, the 5 Easy Ways to Start Living The Sabbatical Life guide is for you.

Once you read it, you’ll

✅ Discover a counter-intuitive approach to making intentional changes in mindset and lifestyle.

✅ Learn how to own your feelings and your struggles so you can address them.

✅ Find out how to face fears, step out of your comfort zone, and rewire your beliefs.

It’s only 7 pages, so it won’t take you long to get through. The five tactics are simple, but you could find yourself seeing that what you’re told is not fine actually IS fine, and you’re destined for a different, more personal journey.

When you’re ready to say F*ck Being Fine – and F*ck those who say you’re not fine – then this guide is the place to start. It’s time to blaze your own trail and allow your curiosity to take you on a new quest!

Go to https://zenrabbit.com right now to download it for free.

Transcript

Lori: Hello, and welcome to Fine is a 4-Letter Word. My guest today is Kimberly Samson. Welcome to the show.

Kimberly: Thank you, Lori, for having me. It’s fun to be on the other side for a change.

Lori: Yes, because we originally met when I was guest on your podcast. And you’re still doing that, right, the podcast?

Kimberly: Yes, The Midlife podcast is still ongoing, as is my midlife.

Lori: Right. We are still there, still in that stage. We’ll talk a little bit more about that. But we’re not going to dwell on that. And we’ll get to talking about your book, too, which is kind of a little bit of a rage against the midlife movement, if you will, which I love. Yeah, we’ll get into that. But I want to start first with the question that I always ask, and that’s what were the values and beliefs that you were raised with that contributed to you becoming who you are?

Kimberly: Wow! That is a fascinating question. The values and beliefs? I think one of the interesting parts of this time in our life is reflecting back on our upbringing. I think that in this moment where we have the opportunity to have this expansion, this huge moment of growth in our own lives, if not, to look back on our childhood. I think that, for me, it was the very structure. So I don’t know how I’m going to answer that question with some sort of value I believe. I think that there were messages that were delivered, but not as that sort of character building exercise. I think the messages were all external and by modeling rather than by through teaching, which is something I’m trying to change with my children, if that makes sense.

Lori: It does make sense. I think a lot of times what we pick up from childhood is not explicitly stated, it’s, of course, by watching our role models, whether those are our parents or—I was going to say colleagues, but friends, schoolmates, teachers, it comes from everywhere.

Kimberly: Yes. I think a lot of those beliefs are just mostly expectations of what we’re supposed to be when we’re growing up. And I feel like for our generation, we were in such a rush to grow up. And there was not a lot of time growing up, or at least effort in the growing up. It was just like you were supposed to be growing up. The expectations were, for me and the way I grew up, there were certain things I was supposed to do. There was a roadmap and there wasn’t the encouragement or opportunity to necessarily take a different path that I didn’t even know was possible.

Lori: Well, I remember in our pre show call, you mentioned that there were expectations that were set for you. There wasn’t a different path. You weren’t shown different paths. You were just like, “This is your path. Walk it.”

Kimberly: Yes. I’ll even share a funny but awful story. I am the eldest child in my family, and my younger brother was going to be bat mitzvah. I was like, “Well, wait a second. I wanted a bat mitzvah.” My mom goes, “You don’t need a bat mitzvah. You’re going to have a wedding.” That’s a good one, right?

Lori: That is a good one.

Kimberly: So there’s going to be a big party, there’s going to be a big party, but your big party is going to be because you’re going to get married, not because you’re going to participate in an important religious ritual.

Lori: Now, you say that and I’m thinking, “Wow, I wish I had your mom because I fought tooth and nail because I did not want one, and they forced me to do it.” I didn’t want bat mitzvah.

Kimberly: Now that you think about the fact that you did it, are you still angry that your mom had to do it, or you don’t appreciate that?

Lori: I have let go of the anger because that’s not serving. But I don’t look back on it and say, “Boy, that was a good decision. I’m glad they made me do that.” No. I felt like I was disrespected for my viewpoints because I was only a kid. And I get that they were trying to do what they thought was right for me at the time. But my views around religion were not respected because I was only 13.

Kimberly: It’s so funny, our son totally had a mom moment, like I did this morning with my 11-year-old. You’re going to hate this, but I feel like we’re friendly enough that I can be myself, right?

Lori: Okay.

Kimberly: For instance, this morning, my 11-year-old, he stayed home sick yesterday, and then had a miracle cure as 11-year-olds do. After a day off from school, got dressed in shorts, and it’s January. And I understand, I live in Los Angeles, it’s not like really inclement weather, but it’s cold for us here to get dressed in shorts. He hasn’t worn shorts the entire school year, but today he chooses to wear shorts. And I said, “What are you doing? You can’t wear shorts.” He’s like, “It’s not your decision,” and I laughed. I said, “You’re quite mistaken. It is my decision. You’re not leaving the house in shorts.”

So, to your 13-year-old self, while I admire that you were forming your own opinions, I don’t know. You’re part of a family with tradition. The tradition in your family at that moment was at 13, you participate in this ritual, and you get to change whatever that is. And if it’s positive or negative, when we grow up, we get to change what we do or don’t like about ourselves, right?

Lori: Right.

Kimberly: Or lean into what we do like change what we don’t like. So I don’t know.

Lori: It’s interesting.

Kimberly: I think you’re a rebel. I think that’s awesome. I think your rebellion started early, and I think that’s a good quality.

Lori: Absolutely. But back to you.

Kimberly: I told you. The other side of the microphone is hard.

Lori: So then I have to ask, did you have a big party for your wedding?

Kimberly: It was the wedding of my mother’s dreams.

Lori: Okay.

Kimberly: For sure. It was pretentious, over the top, ridiculous, dumb, waste of money. Everyone says it was like the greatest party they’ve ever been to.

Lori: But you didn’t feel like it was that great of a party for you?

Kimberly: I don’t like it [6:37 inaudible], Lori. I did not even understand that I had a choice in the matter. And frankly, I think I went along willingly because I didn’t even stop to consider that I would even want something different. So I can’t really blame the powers that be. It never even occurred to me to question that.

Lori: But something that is different, maybe a little different, is that you’re still married.

Kimberly: I am, super happily. Yeah. One of the things that I write about in the book, I write about marriage a lot. I think marriage is like a really interesting thing to discuss. I think there are a lot of pitfalls. I think there’s a lot of unhappy people that are right and need to make changes. I think there are a lot of unhappy people that are blaming external forces for their unhappiness. I talk about marriage a lot. It’s like a hard dance because I don’t want to offend anybody. I don’t want to discount anybody’s feelings. I cannot judge what somebody else’s situation is. But one of the things that I say in the book about marriage is I think that having a wedding is the dumbest thing ever, and no one should ever have a wedding. I think you should have a very small ceremony where you have your close family and friends. And then if you make it 25 years and if you are gloriously happy and you want to keep going, then you deserve the big party. That’s how I look at that.

Lori: I like that. I like that. That makes sense to me.

Kimberly: Unfortunately for me, I would have that big party.

Lori: You can still have the big party now. I mean, could still have it.

Kimberly: Three children. I could, but I don’t want it. If there was ever going to be a celebration, that would be a good time to do it.

Lori: I agree.

Kimberly: So I’m just flipping through that ritual, I guess.

Lori: Let’s have all the parties that we can have. Like, let’s have a wedding party. Let’s have a 20-year and 25. Let’s just keep parties going. All kinds of celebrations.

Kimberly: I guess it depends on your definition of party, because I kind of feel like I’m sort of throwing a party for myself every day. Every day is pretty entertaining. I don’t know that I need to always have guests, because those are a lot of people to feed and clean up after. Not that I always want, that is. I like my own party.

Lori: All right. So you mentioned how you followed on this path because that’s the path that was laid out for you and you never bothered to question, but at some point you did. Where did that come up? What happened that you went, “Wait a second. I don’t have to follow this. There’s more than one path. Maybe I want to go down a different one”?

Kimberly: I didn’t know that I can follow a different path, except that I very intentionally confirmed my path. That’s [9:26 inaudible] because there was a moment in my life, and I talk about this in the book, where I was definitely having a midlife crisis. And that crisis was a crisis of self and not a crisis of my external situation. My crisis of self was I really think, it sounds awful to say, but I’m just saying invalidating myself, and I hope that everybody listening can validate themselves. I know I’m really smart. I know I’m really capable. I know I can learn anything. I know that I had tremendous opportunity in careers over the time of my life. Being a person that maybe was trained, but also felt very validated by things like grades and how much money I made and the titles that I’ve held, it came to certain point where I went, “Well, holy shit, I’m a wife and mom.” I was thinking to myself, “That feels like that’s it.” Really, I’m kind of shameful in saying that because I’m very good at those things, too. I’m really proud of the family we built. And I don’t want to minimize the efforts of being a stay-at-home mom, which I was, I am. I work from home, I still consider myself a stay-at-home. But it was really like a disappointment in myself and I was kind of being an asshole to myself.

Lori: Were you disappointed because you felt like you should be doing a lot more? Like you should be having a big external career, like being a mom and a wife wasn’t enough?

Kimberly: I think it was a lot of anger. It was all the anger because I think it’s a lot to ask of women and people do it and, “Good for you.” I think it’s a lot to ask of women to have a high powered career, to be exceptional in your career, and then also be available 24/7 for your family. And even when I was working full time for a short stint outside of the home when two of my children were little, at least it was this way for me. I still was the one that took responsibility. It wasn’t placed on me. I took the responsibility of the marketing, the cooking, the laundry, all those kind of very traditional female roles. So I don’t think that disappointing myself was that I hadn’t continued on that path when I did go back to work to stay on it. It was just kind of like a feeling of emptiness of not really appreciating all the things that I was doing, not taking the opportunity that I had to continue developing, even if it didn’t look powerful to people outside. So I had stopped learning, I had stopped producing anything. I was really bored and I was bored with myself. And I think that was the shame there, too.

Lori: I was just going to say right before you said it, it sounds like you were bored.

Kimberly: Yeah, totally. I think a lot of women get there, and instead, what I’m proud of is I took responsibility for I’m bored, not people are making me bored.

Lori: Right. Well, everything comes back to ourselves, because the only thing we can change is ourselves. And in order to change outside circumstances, we have to change ourselves. So yeah, it all comes back to that personal responsibility.

Kimberly: I think that that’s what I tried to do in the book. I mean, I think a lot of people are going to be pissed off when they read the book, a lot of people are going to stop reading it, a lot of people are going to be offended by it. They’re going to be offended by it because basically my message in a loving, non-judgmental way is shut the fuck off and take responsibility for your life. Create a lot of few ones. If you don’t know what you want, that’s okay. Just start walking a path, the path illuminates itself. Just to get moving. Just do something.

Lori: Right. Taking that first step. There’s that Martin Luther King quote about the staircase. You don’t have to see the whole staircase, just take the first step. Once you put yourself in action, more reveals itself to what’s your next step, what’s your next step. And I talk about this a lot, too. I probably talked about it on your show, about finding the ability to get quiet enough to hear your own inner voice and what is it telling you to do, because that’s how you figure out what steps to take. That’s taking inspired action instead of just running down a path like your hair is on fire because somebody told you to go that way.

Kimberly: I certainly feel this way that I lost touch with that voice inside, I didn’t trust that voice inside. I didn’t think that getting in touch with that voice is like a really powerful moment in your life. And also not to blame the voice and not to think the voice has all the answers either. Just whatever. This is what we’re doing today. This is what it feels today, and I have the right to change my mind if something else feels different later.

Lori: Yes, that’s another point, too, that people get in this place. They’re like, “Well, every decision or every choice is forever.” And they put so much weight on it that they’re afraid to make the wrong choice, and so they make no choice. This just came up in conversation earlier today. Somebody asked me if I like the group Rush, and I bring up that song, there’s a line in one of their songs, “If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.”

Kimberly: Totally. I totally agree with that sentiment, and to not feel flaky. If you don’t want to make a choice or you change your mind, it’s okay. Who are you answering to? You’re only as answering to your inner core.

Lori: Right. To what you said earlier, fuck them, them being whoever is outside of you, if they don’t agree with you or they don’t see your way of thinking, it’s not your job to convince people. If they want to come along for the ride, great. If they don’t, that’s okay, too. But I love that you’re inviting critics.

Kimberly: Yes. All I can do is offer—it is an opinion. I’m not a psychologist. I’m not trying to tell you how to live your life or what to do with your life. I’m just giving you my opinion. I happen to have very strong opinions. I tend to convey them in a slightly humorous and entertaining way. I use a lot of stories. I use a lot of my own fuck-ups. I just hope people have a good time and are willing to wince a little bit and look inside. That’s just what I’m hoping for you when you read it. Just go, “That actually hurt. That stung little.” Okay, why did that sting instead of reacting and saying, “I’m an asshole,” which you’re welcome to that thought, too.

Lori: Right, although that does not contribute to growth. So if you’re looking to grow—

Kimberly: That’s not my problem. That’s their problem, right?

Lori: No, that’s what I’m saying. I’m saying if somebody’s reading it and saying, “Fuck you,” that “You’re an idiot,” that doesn’t contribute to their growth, as opposed to looking at it and going, “Huh. That’s an interesting way of looking at things. I don’t agree but let me think about that for a second,” and see what you can take away from that.

Kimberly: One of the essays in the book I say that old saying like, “Don’t shoot the messenger.” If somebody’s willing to say to you, “Hey, that was cool way you handled that,” or “I’m not really comfortable when you do that,” or “I don’t like when you…” whatever. Just take a minute and if somebody loved you enough to give you that feedback, just stay with it for a second. Maybe there’s something to learn.

Lori: Right, especially if it triggers you.

Kimberly: Yes, for sure. But I think that’s part of the growth in the midlife. That’s part of growing up. You asked about values and like that, path and stuff. What do you want to be when you grow up? I mean, I don’t ever want to grow up. I want to continue growing up.

Lori: Well, I think that’s what’s required of our souls is continuous growth. And when people feel bored, or they feel like life is just fine, but it’s really not fine, and they beat themselves up because “Look at all of this that I have, how can I be bored?” like you were talking about how you felt.

Kimberly: Totally.

Lori: They come to that shame and guilt and like, “How can I say this? Because look at what I have.” It’s the soul crying out for more, which is what a soul naturally does.

Kimberly: Yes. Yes, I think that’s so true. And feeding and nurturing that soul is so fun. Talking about throwing a party, that’s so entertaining. My goal is to entertain myself all day long. I do it in lots of different ways. That really is an enriching life.

Lori: So when you were feeling that boredom, what did you do? What steps did you take? What did you seek out? How did you get yourself out of that place to where you are now?

Kimberly: I think you grab the low-hanging fruit. I certainly did, and that’s a lot of what it’s about in the book, too. Just grab the low-hanging fruit. And it sounds vain but sometimes all you can do is work on the outside for a minute before you’re willing to look on the inside. Again, I say in the book, “I can only relay my experiences and it’s no judgment on anybody’s experiences, but if you can take something from my experience and apply it to yours, that’s what I’m hoping for.” So all I can do is speak from my experience. But I was at home, I didn’t have to be somewhere on somebody else’s schedule. I didn’t have to show up a certain way for work. But just to get up in the morning and throw on a little bit of makeup, do something with my very frizzy curly hair, put on some clothing that wasn’t just [20:03 inaudible] wear. Start working out, just sweating a little bit. So it was just those little things.

Then I was like, well, okay, what used to make me happy when I was little? I loved horseback riding. Fine, I found a barn by my house, I started horseback riding. Whatever it was, just do it. I started writing. But all these things, they just piggyback to one after the other, and then all of a sudden you start feeling like human again and you start getting curious again. “But I’ve always wanted to know about that,” or “I’m interested in that,” or “I want to learn about that.” So then I feel like you sort of start moving. And you start recreating your life. And also you and I have spoken about this before, I’m a fairly cynical human being, so please know that for these words to come out of my mouth makes vile come up in the back of my throat. But being be grateful for what you do have and being present in those little moments that seem like nothing but they’re everything is so helpful. So always be grateful. But it’s true. I mean, the truth is, it really makes a different difference.

Lori: Speaking my language. Thank you. From a cynic, gratitude actually makes a difference. Awesome. I’m going to have to use that as a testimonial.

Kimberly: You can. But I mean, it was the mundane of my life, I started enjoying. One thing that comes to mind all the time is doing the dishes. I feel like I’m constantly doing the dishes in my house. I think about things like I’m so lucky to have hot water. It’s important to me that my family has clean dishes. I know that sounds really trite and really mundane. But when you start reframing, just like the smallest things that you do for the reason that you do it, it really turns pleasurable. I know when you’re in a very raw and dark place, somebody says that to you, and you’re literally like, “Go fuck yourself.” But when you get to that point, it’s very soothing.

Lori: Yes. It’s actually more a reachable place when you are in a dark place if you can go wash dishes. It’s just not about going out and singing the praises of life on the street corner because you’re so joyful. It could be just enjoying a cup of tea and finding gratitude in “I have hot water for tea.”

Kimberly: Yes, I agree. I just know that in my darkest time, and I read a lot of these things, it could not resonate if my defenses work so [22:57 inaudible]. So I know that there are places too for people that are listening or reading or whatever.

Lori: And that’s what it is. It is about taking that one small step. What’s the one small step you can take and starting from there?

Kimberly: And just keep repeating it. Even if it’s just one thing, just keep repeating that one thing. And all of a sudden, two things may feel manageable. I think as women we’re so—I’m not going to just do better, I’m going to take over the world. No, no, no. There’s a lot of steps in between. There’s a lot of things you can do. Little tiny things that you can string together that will make a huge difference. It’s not all or nothing. I write about that, too. There’s a gray area. Not everything is black and white, not everything is horrible or great. There’s a lot of in between, there’s a lot of living and a lot of goodness.

Lori: That’s pretty much all of life is that gray area.

Kimberly: Yes. So if you’re only expecting things are either good or they’re bad, you don’t know what happy is. Happy is not the absence of sadness. It’s actually just a baseline.

Lori: Yes, just like courage is not the absence of fear. I need to ask you about your current viewpoint of the propaganda around midlife. I don’t know what other word to use for it. But I know you have come to an opinion about all of the talks.

Kimberly: One of the kindest things that my best friend said to me, she goes, “You were just early on this.” Because I feel like kind of before it was a thing. Maybe I’m a few years older than Gwyneth or something. I don’t know about it. I’m talking about it, and then all of a sudden it’s a thing. But the thing that makes me so frustrated is the thing is everybody wallowing in the bad part of it, the commiseration. I think women do build community around commiserating. I just think it’s like a weird, natural, proclivity that we have. So I feel like there’s a lot of the complaining and not a lot of the doing and succeeding. It’s like everybody highlighting, I guess, the things that you could say are frustrating and challenging about midlife, rather than accepting those and moving on.

Lori: Okay. About all of the emotions and the physical things that go with midlife versus the opportunity to grow into who you really are.

Kimberly: Yes, or who you’re going to be today, because you get to be somebody different tomorrow if you want to be. I just feel like it’s highly commercialized at this moment. I think it’s like murkers have woken up to the fact that our demographic like, “We might have a little money in our pocket now. We are good buyers.” I just feel like we’re really commercialized right now, and it kind of makes me angry. And also, all the talk about menopause as if it’s a commercial—can we fix that? I don’t know. I just don’t feel like there’s a holistic view to where we are in life right now, and beauty and possibility. I just think there’s a lot of complaining.

Lori: There is. There certainly is a lot of fucking complaining. But isn’t that the direction that all of society has gone? It’s like, “Hey, you can fix this with a pill.” It’s like everything can be fixed. People are complaining about pain or discomfort or whatever, and it’s like, “Oh, just take this pill and you’ll be good.” So that you don’t have to feel the emotions or you don’t have to do any internal work for it.

Kimberly: Yes. That can really piss people off. You don’t want to do the hard work first, right? And the hard work is certainly it’s your mind, it’s your body, it’s your habits, it’s your eating. There’s all these other things that are solutions. And I think that people who can get paid want to give you something for one problem, and don’t look at us as a holistic being.

Lori: Right. I don’t think we’ve ever been looked at that way.

Kimberly: It makes me so frustrated. I guess why I’m raging in my book a lot is because I want everybody to wake up and stop buying into the bullshit. We’re so much better than this. We’re so much better than be reduced to menopause and empty nesting. You know purpose, like all these things exist as individual silos, when they don’t. It all goes together, all these experiences. However yours is lined up, all contributed to who you are today, and will all inform who you will be tomorrow. Sure, there are things to be sad about. People are in the process, there’s all those terrible things. But there’s lots of different solutions besides somebody’s selling you something to fix it.

Lori: Right. “But come on, Kimberly. I just want an easy button.”

Kimberly: There is an easy button. That’s the crazy thing is I think the easy button is the hard work. That’s what’s fun.

Lori: But the hard work is fun.

Kimberly: I think that’s fun. It’s actually really rewarding and fun.

Lori: You really think it’s fun.

Kimberly: I know. But if you could change your mindset around it, it’s entertaining.

Lori: It is. I agree with you. I’m just saying that most people watching are like, “Where’s the easy button? Can I just turn it on and watch TV?”

Kimberly: My grandfather used to say about anything, he used to tell me like, “When you’re raising children, tell them they’re smart, they will be. Tell them they’re pretty, they will be.” I thought that was really interesting advice. Because I also don’t think I was anywhere near childbearing age when he told me that. But anyway, I think it’s funny because—

Lori: You do remember it.

Kimberly: I do remember it. But I do feel like the opposite happens with a lot of the messaging around midlife is that they’re telling you it’s sad.

Lori: Yes.

Kimberly: Life isn’t a thing if your children have left, your husband’s cheating on you. You’re fat. You’re validating all of my worst feelings about myself.

Lori: Right. All your good years are behind you. But you know what could fix it. Buy this. Buy this thing and everything will be good.

Kimberly: Yes, but it won’t be, and you’ll just keep buying something else because that didn’t work so I’ll just try something else. So they just keep you on the hamster wheel. I just think there’s a better way. I think you think there’s a better way. I think we’re offering a better way. I think we’re setting an example it’s a better way. This is supposed to be fun. That should happen under control. But mostly, it’s supposed to be fun.

Lori: That is I think when you just said about being an example for other people is the only way—not the only way to live our life. I’m not living my life to be an example for other people specifically, and I don’t think you are either. You're living it to feel good yourself. But when we are living our lives this way, it gives other people permission to live their lives to see what’s possible, just like when we were talking about, as you’re growing up, you see what’s possible by looking around. Same thing. We don’t grow out of doing that. You look around.

Kimberly: I almost disagree in a small part of that. The way I grew up, I didn’t even know, I can’t even fathom what’s possible, I still can’t fathom what’s possible. I think if you give yourself up to this idea that you know what the outcome is supposed to be, you completely limit yourself. I think it’s so much better than what you think it could be anything. It’s not to say that there aren’t failures or setbacks and stuff. But I don’t even know what’s possible, and that’s exciting to me.

Lori: Yes. You look at role models to see—

Kimberly: Right. They’re so limiting now, right?

Lori: To set your beliefs about what you believe is possible. And then as you grow and expand, you find different role models or different examples of what could be. That’s part of this whole growth process. That’s where I’m talking about. You look at what other people are doing and say, “Well, if they’re doing that, I could do that,” or “That that looks interesting. Maybe I’ll try that.” When you’re expanding what you’re seeing, you’re expanding the possibilities for yourself.

Kimberly: Yes. I would almost say give yourself their permission to just take like a buffet, a little nibble of what that person is doing what’s exciting, a little nibble of what that person is doing is what’s exciting. And then maybe you eclipse even what they have been able to accomplish. Who knows? I can say for you guys listening.

Lori: Absolutely. Cool. All right, when is your book publishing?

Kimberly: The e-book is available for pre order on Amazon. It’s delivering and the paperback is available for delivery on February 14, on Valentine’s Day. I feel like it’s my love letter to women in midlife. I feel like it’s a Valentine’s Day present for you to give yourself or a best friend. It’s also a lovely way for me to remember it, my son is 12th birthday is February 14.

Lori: Oh, perfect. Okay.

Kimberly: It’s called F*ck This: Practical Advice to Get You Through Your Midlife Crisis. So you can preorder it on Amazon, and you can actually buy it on Valentine’s Day.

Lori: Awesome. So I think that means it will be available when we publish this.

Kimberly: Excellent. I know about your future thing. I’m living today in this moment.

Lori: Yes, we are living in this moment. And I will have links to do that in the show notes.

Kimberly: Thank you, Lori.

Lori: Make it very easy for people. Before we go, what is your hype song?

Kimberly: It’s funny. You warned me about this question and I panicked. I just picked something random so that I could be a good guest and answer. You know that silly song like all the boys come to the playground for my milkshake. I know it’s called Milkshake. I just like to put that down to be snarky. But I wrote about this in the book about your soundtrack, and I think your soundtrack, what you’re playing is so important. I think it’s what we’re talking about this entire conversation. So whether it’s what you’re watching, who you’re modeling yourself after, what you’re listening to is your soundtrack and can put you in a really great mood or crappy mood. And the truth is that I have loved music, but when somebody else picks it for me. I love soundtracks growing up. My husband has a great music collection. My eldest son is a musician and in a band. I listen to anything, but I want to feel good. Sometimes the wallow and the longing of music is great, but don’t be listening to that all the time if you’re trying to have an energetic life, right?

Lori: Right. Music fuels your emotions and your energy.

Kimberly: 100%.

Lori: Yes, the frequencies. That’s how you feel.

Kimberly: Truthfully, when I said My Milkshake, it was a joke. But anything Eagles, Allman Brothers, Southern rock.

Lori: Okay. All right. Cool. So when you’re walking up to a stage to speak, is that what your walk up song would be?

Kimberly: Honestly, I think the truth is I would have to do a lot of research because there’s no song … My favorite song is Beast of Burden, but that’s not a walk up song.

Lori: All right. It’s not your hype song. Well, I think there could be two different things.

Kimberly: Maybe one day I’ll be on a stage and I will call you, and I will say, “Lori, you’ll never guess. I have been asked to speak at and this is the song I’ve chosen.” So I guess I’ll report back.

Lori: Okay. I will stay tuned. I will keep my phone on alert for that.

Kimberly: Okay, cool.

Lori: Kimberly, thank you so much for joining us today on FINE is a 4-Letter Word.

Kimberly: Lori, thanks so much for having me. As always, it’s so fun to talk to you.

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