23. (S1E23) The Pain of Transformation vs the Pain of Regret with Jess Lilly

Lori Saitz: 00:00:03

Hello, and welcome to Fine is a 4-Letter Word. My

Lori Saitz: 00:00:07

guest today is Jess Lilly and Jess and I met through the

Lori Saitz: 00:00:11

coolest. What I don't know what to call it application the

Lori Saitz: 00:00:14

coolest way possible. It's this program called lunch club.ai.

Lori Saitz: 00:00:20

I'm not an affiliate. I'm not promoting it. I am promoting it,

Lori Saitz: 00:00:23

but I don't get paid to promote it. But Jess was my very first

Lori Saitz: 00:00:27

matchup on lunch club. And then we just stayed connecting.

Lori Saitz: 00:00:32

Welcome, Jess,

Jess Lilly: 00:00:33

thank you for having me, Lori. Yeah, I love that we

Jess Lilly: 00:00:38

met on lunch club. And I love that I get to be on your

Jess Lilly: 00:00:41

podcast, because one of the things I remember from our very

Jess Lilly: 00:00:44

first meeting is that you introduced me to just how simple

Jess Lilly: 00:00:49

and painless it can be to get on a podcast and actually just

Jess Lilly: 00:00:53

start being heard and using my voice. And at the time, I was so

Jess Lilly: 00:00:57

hesitant to just jump in, and you inspired me and you

Jess Lilly: 00:01:01

catalyzed me. So this is very meaningful to me that I am

Jess Lilly: 00:01:04

actually on your podcast.

Lori Saitz: 00:01:06

Thank you. That's awesome. Yeah, it really I mean,

Lori Saitz: 00:01:09

it's just a conversation. We're just having a conversation for

Lori Saitz: 00:01:13

the world to hear, but still. No pressure.

Jess Lilly: 00:01:17

Still have fun. And just a fun opportunity to talk

Jess Lilly: 00:01:20

to Lori and other people get to hear it too.

Lori Saitz: 00:01:22

Yeah

Jess Lilly: 00:01:23

they're so lucky.

Lori Saitz: 00:01:25

You're right. So let's start out with the

Lori Saitz: 00:01:29

question that I like to start with, which is what were the

Lori Saitz: 00:01:32

beliefs and values that were instilled in you, as you were

Lori Saitz: 00:01:35

growing up that have affected you, as you become an adult?

Jess Lilly: 00:01:42

Ah, this is such a great question. So some of the

Jess Lilly: 00:01:46

beliefs there, there's, it's interesting, because I think

Jess Lilly: 00:01:50

I've had, I had a couple of conflicting beliefs instilled in

Jess Lilly: 00:01:54

me. I'm kind of a believer that, you know, generation to

Jess Lilly: 00:02:00

generation, people pass the baton, like they do their work,

Jess Lilly: 00:02:04

like so my grandmother and my grandparents, great generation,

Jess Lilly: 00:02:07

they did their work. And they did everything that they could

Jess Lilly: 00:02:10

to move, move the ball on our family, and then they hand the

Jess Lilly: 00:02:14

baton down. And then my mom and dad do their work. And then they

Jess Lilly: 00:02:18

hand the baton down. So it's interesting, because I received,

Jess Lilly: 00:02:22

you know, some super empowering beliefs, I received some

Jess Lilly: 00:02:26

disempowering beliefs, but I just wouldn't have it any other

Jess Lilly: 00:02:30

way. Because it all like came together for my, you know, my

Jess Lilly: 00:02:33

own journey. But one of the beliefs that I was instilled in

Jess Lilly: 00:02:39

me by my father, is that my sensitivity is a strength. Like,

Jess Lilly: 00:02:48

oh, that's me. I didn't believe him. At first, like, I really

Jess Lilly: 00:02:52

was super enrolled in the like, kind of patriarchal, like I had,

Jess Lilly: 00:02:58

I was kind of convinced by a lot of external things that, you

Jess Lilly: 00:03:02

know, the fact that I'm, you know, I'm a very sensitive,

Jess Lilly: 00:03:05

highly emotionally intelligent, empathetic, you know, cry on a

Jess Lilly: 00:03:09

dime, kind of kind of person, big, hard, big, tender heart.

Jess Lilly: 00:03:13

And I kind of made myself wrong for that, because I felt way

Jess Lilly: 00:03:16

more deeply than other people, the people around me things that

Jess Lilly: 00:03:19

didn't affect other people deeply affected me, I could feel

Jess Lilly: 00:03:23

other people's feelings like just being in their space. And I

Jess Lilly: 00:03:26

really believed that that meant there was something wrong with

Jess Lilly: 00:03:29

me. So I had this kind of, there's something wrong with me

Jess Lilly: 00:03:32

belief, like, just inherently there's something wrong with me.

Jess Lilly: 00:03:35

But I also had this belief of my sensitivities, my strength, and

Jess Lilly: 00:03:39

I had this underlying knowing that I am going to be able to

Jess Lilly: 00:03:45

use this I don't know how I am like a part of my purpose on the

Jess Lilly: 00:03:49

planet is using my innate sensitivity and gifts and this

Jess Lilly: 00:03:54

this like I you know, nowadays, I call it like, a Heart Ball. So

Jess Lilly: 00:03:59

like my like Heart Ball Enos, my, like, leadership this. And

Jess Lilly: 00:04:04

so that's really one of the beliefs that he passed to me

Jess Lilly: 00:04:06

because he's totally a sensitive hardball type, you know, very.

Jess Lilly: 00:04:11

That's, that's totally him. And he made it clear to me that he

Jess Lilly: 00:04:14

values that in me.

Lori Saitz: 00:04:18

And it's really interesting, that that you felt

Lori Saitz: 00:04:21

that it's a liability, though, because other people could feel

Lori Saitz: 00:04:27

that they're being the opposite of that maybe not feeling or not

Lori Saitz: 00:04:32

being able to understand other people's feelings would be a

Lori Saitz: 00:04:35

deficit on their part. So everybody all around is feeling

Lori Saitz: 00:04:39

there's something wrong with me that there's nothing

Jess Lilly: 00:04:42

Oh, well, and it's so funny because it also you're

Jess Lilly: 00:04:44

pointing to the fact that, you know, I feel like there's a

Jess Lilly: 00:04:47

stage in development where you just want to belong, and you

Jess Lilly: 00:04:50

just want to conform and just be like everybody else. And there's

Jess Lilly: 00:04:54

this natural progression of No, I want to be fully myself and

Jess Lilly: 00:04:58

authentic and be distinct and integrate And just be fully me,

Jess Lilly: 00:05:02

where you get to embrace all these differences that you might

Jess Lilly: 00:05:04

have or special gifts. But the so that was really, that whole

Jess Lilly: 00:05:09

journey around my relationship to my sensitivity and my being

Jess Lilly: 00:05:13

and my authentic self, I think has been just it got catalyzed

Jess Lilly: 00:05:19

from that kind of conversation from a very, very young age. And

Jess Lilly: 00:05:24

then there's this other conversation that you know,

Jess Lilly: 00:05:27

I'll, you know, all the tribute to, I love love loved my

Jess Lilly: 00:05:32

grandmother, my grandma Shirley. And she also had a ton of

Jess Lilly: 00:05:37

disempowering beliefs that she trained me in because she wanted

Jess Lilly: 00:05:42

me to be safe. So she she's this, you know, you know, grew

Jess Lilly: 00:05:47

up on the Lower East Side of Manhattan. Jewish immigrant

Jess Lilly: 00:05:52

experience, you know, had a lot of fear in her space in general,

Jess Lilly: 00:05:57

a very hard upbringing, all that stuff. And so she passed on

Jess Lilly: 00:06:02

stories to me for the explicit purpose for me to be safe and

Jess Lilly: 00:06:07

okay, but the stories were you need a man to take care of you.

Jess Lilly: 00:06:12

Don't be fat. You know, just don't like, you know, she was

Jess Lilly: 00:06:17

constantly monitoring like, you know, what? Is it? How's the

Jess Lilly: 00:06:22

figure? Is it good? Is it bad? She looked like? Oh, yeah, she's

Jess Lilly: 00:06:26

Grandma. Grandma Shirley is like, my heavy hitter with the

Jess Lilly: 00:06:29

accent. She's like, you know? She, she, yeah. So she just had

Jess Lilly: 00:06:36

this and I learned it. Yes, there was some explicit training

Jess Lilly: 00:06:41

in that, like for my grandmother of like, Jessie, are you happy?

Jess Lilly: 00:06:47

I'm like, Yes, grandma, I am happy. No, you're not happy. You

Jess Lilly: 00:06:49

don't have a boyfriend? When are you going to have a boyfriend?

Jess Lilly: 00:06:51

Like, she just wouldn't believe I, being a single person was

Jess Lilly: 00:06:56

also happy and fulfilled. Right? Um, but the place that I learned

Jess Lilly: 00:07:00

all that stuff, like the kind of disempowered, feminine, like

Jess Lilly: 00:07:05

perspective, that kind of like, you know, please someone rescue

Jess Lilly: 00:07:09

me. I learned that mostly from what she modeled and and how she

Jess Lilly: 00:07:14

spoke about herself,

Lori Saitz: 00:07:15

of course, and I think that's how a lot of us

Lori Saitz: 00:07:17

learn not necessarily through what is actually said, but what

Lori Saitz: 00:07:21

we're watching.

Jess Lilly: 00:07:22

Yes. And it's really interesting, because I, you

Jess Lilly: 00:07:25

know, my grandmother, love love. Again, I just loved her, like,

Jess Lilly: 00:07:29

she was super dysfunctional, but she had such, I feel so much

Jess Lilly: 00:07:32

affinity toward her, like, I have a I have a picture of me

Jess Lilly: 00:07:35

and her like, in my living room. And I think about her all the

Jess Lilly: 00:07:38

time. Because I feel like she and I were cut from the same

Jess Lilly: 00:07:41

cloth, but I had the tools and opportunities that I had, and

Jess Lilly: 00:07:44

she just didn't have those. Right. So like, I have no doubt

Jess Lilly: 00:07:48

that, you know, sometimes I think about you know, if she

Jess Lilly: 00:07:51

were born, if for whatever reason, some funny universe

Jess Lilly: 00:07:55

existed where me and my grandma both lived in this generation

Jess Lilly: 00:07:59

together, like we would maybe would have, we would have

Jess Lilly: 00:08:02

started a podcast together. Like She's hilarious and she was

Jess Lilly: 00:08:07

hilarious and witty, and spicy and strong and all this stuff,

Jess Lilly: 00:08:12

but never believed about herself. And and she would

Jess Lilly: 00:08:15

always say, Jesse, you should be a comedian. Those are the big

Jess Lilly: 00:08:19

thing She always said to Jessie Oh, yeah, you're so funny should

Jess Lilly: 00:08:22

be a comedian. And, um, you know, she just really believed

Jess Lilly: 00:08:26

in me on a lot of levels. She really believed in me and loved

Jess Lilly: 00:08:29

that I was taking my own path. But at the same time, she just

Jess Lilly: 00:08:33

really wish that I would be safe and in her mind safe is being

Jess Lilly: 00:08:37

taken care of by a man. And that's just how her belief

Jess Lilly: 00:08:41

system was. I also really wish that she had lived to be able to

Jess Lilly: 00:08:45

watch marvelous miss me as all that show about the Jewish, you

Jess Lilly: 00:08:51

know, female comedian, because it really blown her off, it

Jess Lilly: 00:08:54

would have blown her away, we would have had a ball. So on a

Jess Lilly: 00:08:58

certain level, I'm like Grandma Shirley. I hope that your spirit

Jess Lilly: 00:09:02

has the opportunity to watch that show somehow. Love you. But

Jess Lilly: 00:09:08

that's, you know, that's she shaped, you know, she shaped a

Jess Lilly: 00:09:11

lot of how I viewed myself in the world. And she inspires me

Jess Lilly: 00:09:19

now to continuous continuously voraciously, heal wounds, change

Jess Lilly: 00:09:26

the story and the pattern and do my work to pass on.

Lori Saitz: 00:09:30

Yeah, it's so interesting that you recognize

Lori Saitz: 00:09:34

the qualities that she why she was give empowering you in the

Lori Saitz: 00:09:39

way or disempowering you in the way that she was, and that you

Lori Saitz: 00:09:43

don't find fault with her for doing that because of course,

Lori Saitz: 00:09:45

that was where she came from. That's what she knew. And she

Lori Saitz: 00:09:50

was doing it out of love. Now, but at the same time, now you

Lori Saitz: 00:09:56

recognize the work that you need to do or have done, tell me more

Lori Saitz: 00:09:59

about that. The work that you have done to get to the place

Lori Saitz: 00:10:02

where you are now.

Jess Lilly: 00:10:03

Yeah, I that. It's so amazing. You just asked that

Jess Lilly: 00:10:07

question because the the thing that was on my mind when you

Jess Lilly: 00:10:10

were speaking was just what a huge, huge transformational gift

Jess Lilly: 00:10:16

coaching has been for me. So loved my therapeutic journey. So

Jess Lilly: 00:10:21

I'll kind of backup. So I, you know, I'm very lucky, I was

Jess Lilly: 00:10:25

raised in a home a Jewish Home where therapy was not. It wasn't

Jess Lilly: 00:10:31

seen as something bad or wrong or something. You know, it was

Jess Lilly: 00:10:34

it was,

Lori Saitz: 00:10:34

yeah, it was perfectly fine. Except perfectly

Lori Saitz: 00:10:37

fine. perfectly.

Jess Lilly: 00:10:40

fine, it's fine. Well, actually, it was accepted.

Jess Lilly: 00:10:45

And it's funny that you call it fine, because it was fine. So

Jess Lilly: 00:10:48

therapy for me was fine. I did a ton of work around my, like, I

Jess Lilly: 00:10:55

had really low self esteem. And, you know, I had a lot of

Jess Lilly: 00:10:59

symptoms of depression and anxiety. Some of it was very

Jess Lilly: 00:11:02

much like, you know, biological things, some of it was

Jess Lilly: 00:11:06

circumstantial. But what happened was, you know, in my

Jess Lilly: 00:11:11

20s, I hit a wall with therapy where I was like, I'm pretty

Jess Lilly: 00:11:16

sure I can be more alive than I currently am. And I've been in a

Jess Lilly: 00:11:19

lot, I favor a lot of therapy. I've been like 10 years of

Jess Lilly: 00:11:22

therapy. And I think that I can be more alive and vital and full

Jess Lilly: 00:11:26

of joy than I currently am. And I'm in this loop of believing

Jess Lilly: 00:11:31

that my depression and my exam anxiety are who I am, and that

Jess Lilly: 00:11:35

they are my limiting factors. And that's when I really I just

Jess Lilly: 00:11:40

am super. The timing was very serendipitous that I was

Jess Lilly: 00:11:44

introduced to certain role models were all coaches,

Jess Lilly: 00:11:47

including the coach that I ended up hiring this awesome coach

Jess Lilly: 00:11:50

Laura Westman, look her up. She's great. Still, my coach,

Jess Lilly: 00:11:54

um, I met her and I was introduced to the conversation

Jess Lilly: 00:11:59

around coaching, which is about Hey, yes, address your mental

Jess Lilly: 00:12:05

health stuff, for sure. Hey, yeah, totally heal your trauma,

Jess Lilly: 00:12:08

do all that stuff. And there's another conversation that you

Jess Lilly: 00:12:11

can be in about your greatness and your purpose on the planet,

Jess Lilly: 00:12:16

and taking action to get what you want. And taking your power

Jess Lilly: 00:12:19

back from the crap that you've given your power away to, you

Jess Lilly: 00:12:23

have more power than you think. And of course, when I first met

Jess Lilly: 00:12:27

this person, I was in such a victim mentality, I was felt

Jess Lilly: 00:12:30

very sorry for myself, I felt super trapped by depression. And

Jess Lilly: 00:12:35

these limiting stories about myself and what I'm capable of,

Jess Lilly: 00:12:39

given what I'm like, air quotes. And so I started this coaching

Jess Lilly: 00:12:47

journey. And one of the really cool aspects of coaching is that

Jess Lilly: 00:12:51

you learn through really cool conversations and really special

Jess Lilly: 00:12:57

relationships, you learn how to not take your stuff or other

Jess Lilly: 00:13:01

people's stuff personally. Like, I'm able to really look and say,

Jess Lilly: 00:13:06

Hey, who I truly am, I am authenticity and joy, I am

Jess Lilly: 00:13:12

empathy, love, I'm all these qualities and these gifts and

Jess Lilly: 00:13:16

these ways of being. And I'm a human being. So I have a

Jess Lilly: 00:13:22

survival mechanism, I have these automatic fear based ways of

Jess Lilly: 00:13:25

moving around the world to protect myself. And those things

Jess Lilly: 00:13:29

are not who I am. Those are the things I do to stay safe when

Jess Lilly: 00:13:33

I'm threatened or insecure or whatever. And so the more that I

Jess Lilly: 00:13:37

worked on my own seeing my own stuff that way and more

Jess Lilly: 00:13:41

identifying with my, what I would call it your essence,

Jess Lilly: 00:13:45

which is kind of the language we use in our the coach training

Jess Lilly: 00:13:48

program, accomplishment coaching that I'm involved with, you

Jess Lilly: 00:13:51

know, the more I saw myself as my essence and less identified

Jess Lilly: 00:13:55

with my fear, I was able to also offer that to other people. And

Jess Lilly: 00:14:00

so huge when it comes to, especially with family

Jess Lilly: 00:14:03

relationships, because, you know, family relationships, have

Jess Lilly: 00:14:06

those that special way of getting under your skin like

Jess Lilly: 00:14:09

other people can't, you know,

Lori Saitz: 00:14:10

right, right. They know what buttons to push

Jess Lilly: 00:14:13

buttons. Yeah, total. Yeah, it's total freedom

Jess Lilly: 00:14:16

to be able to say, oh, that actually wasn't about me. I

Jess Lilly: 00:14:19

stepped in something with this person. That's because they were

Jess Lilly: 00:14:23

really scared by whatever was going on between us. And it's

Jess Lilly: 00:14:27

not about my worthiness. It's not about whether or not they

Jess Lilly: 00:14:33

love me, it's about where they are and what they're

Jess Lilly: 00:14:37

experiencing. And that's okay.

Lori Saitz: 00:14:40

Yeah, I love that. You just made the distinction

Lori Saitz: 00:14:42

between coaching and therapy for why I'm passionate about that.

Lori Saitz: 00:14:48

Yeah, yeah. And they both have a place and but it's a different

Lori Saitz: 00:14:53

place, and they're gonna help you accomplish different things.

Lori Saitz: 00:14:56

And yeah, they're like two different cars. on a road, so

Jess Lilly: 00:15:01

they're like two cars on the road. And just to

Jess Lilly: 00:15:03

give you an example, because people often, you know, there's

Jess Lilly: 00:15:08

a lot of nuance there. And so something I'm really passionate

Jess Lilly: 00:15:10

about is educating people about what the distinctions are, even

Jess Lilly: 00:15:14

when there's nuance. And one of the things that I did with my

Jess Lilly: 00:15:18

coach in the past few years as I, I rehired her to say, hey,

Jess Lilly: 00:15:23

what we're going to work on together, is my relationship to

Jess Lilly: 00:15:26

my depression and my mental health. We can't address the

Jess Lilly: 00:15:30

depression together, because I'm going to go do that in therapy.

Jess Lilly: 00:15:33

I'm going to go do that over here where with a licensed

Jess Lilly: 00:15:36

healing professional, but what you and I are going to do is

Jess Lilly: 00:15:39

we're going to look at what's what's my vision for myself, and

Jess Lilly: 00:15:43

how do I incorporate and integrate this reality, which is

Jess Lilly: 00:15:48

I experienced depression. I am not unique. That is

Lori Saitz: 00:15:52

a very Yeah, exactly. And I again, the way

Lori Saitz: 00:15:56

you just phrase that is I experience it, it's not who you

Lori Saitz: 00:16:00

are. It's it doesn't define you. It's just something that you

Lori Saitz: 00:16:07

experience, like, anything else we experience. Absolutely. Yeah.

Lori Saitz: 00:16:15

Before we got on this call, one of our conversations of the many

Lori Saitz: 00:16:20

conversations we've had previous, we were talking about

Lori Saitz: 00:16:24

people wanting the thing, whatever the thing is, but not

Lori Saitz: 00:16:29

wanting to, but not wanting the pain that goes with it. Yep. And

Lori Saitz: 00:16:37

that they think that they're you had said that they think there's

Lori Saitz: 00:16:40

a version of life where there's no pain?

Jess Lilly: 00:16:43

Mm hmm. Gosh, and don't we all just fall into that

Jess Lilly: 00:16:48

trap. I don't want to speak for the universal way. But I'll

Jess Lilly: 00:16:51

speak for myself that, you know, there are some times when, you

Jess Lilly: 00:16:56

know, I've chosen a very rigorous transformational path,

Jess Lilly: 00:17:01

or I'm, you know, I'm on a leadership team in a coach

Jess Lilly: 00:17:03

training program. So I'm always being challenged at this really

Jess Lilly: 00:17:07

high level of rigor, you know, I do a lot of therapy, I do a lot

Jess Lilly: 00:17:10

of, I just do a lot of work. And there are times where I I really

Jess Lilly: 00:17:16

think to myself, like especially when when I'm right up against

Jess Lilly: 00:17:19

my next breakthrough, or I'm really outside my comfort zone

Jess Lilly: 00:17:23

and doing stuff that is super confronting to me, I think to

Jess Lilly: 00:17:26

myself. Wait, isn't there like a, like, why did I decide to do

Jess Lilly: 00:17:31

this? Like, like, wait,

Lori Saitz: 00:17:33

leave the easy button? Where's the Wait, can

Jess Lilly: 00:17:36

we go by too easy and and just, you know, time and

Jess Lilly: 00:17:39

time again, I always remember that the thing that I thought

Jess Lilly: 00:17:42

was the easy way was shrinking my life, because I was always

Jess Lilly: 00:17:47

trying to just avoid pain. And I was shrinking my life and trying

Jess Lilly: 00:17:51

to, you know, remove any kinds of, you know, stimulus or

Jess Lilly: 00:17:59

responsibilities, commitments, relationships, that would cause

Jess Lilly: 00:18:02

me to experience pain, instead of the path of expanding my

Jess Lilly: 00:18:09

capacity to be with pain, expanding my capacity to trust

Jess Lilly: 00:18:14

my inner strength and trust my support systems that I haven't

Jess Lilly: 00:18:18

placed to just to persevere in the face of it. And but I still

Jess Lilly: 00:18:23

have those moments. And my clients have those moments. And

Jess Lilly: 00:18:25

my peers in my in the coach training world have those

Jess Lilly: 00:18:28

moments of like, Ah, wait, isn't there like a world where I'm

Jess Lilly: 00:18:33

sitting on a beach drinking a, like virgin pina colada? And

Jess Lilly: 00:18:37

like, nothing's ever wrong. And I have all the money in the

Jess Lilly: 00:18:40

bank, and there are no problems ever. Yes. Where's

Lori Saitz: 00:18:43

that version? Well, it just reminded me of two

Lori Saitz: 00:18:45

things because I remember having a coach who would say that

Lori Saitz: 00:18:49

there's always a breakdown before breakthrough. Like

Lori Saitz: 00:18:54

whenever you're losing your mind like that is indicative of a

Lori Saitz: 00:18:58

breakthrough This is coming. And the other thing I remember

Lori Saitz: 00:19:02

hearing from some a different coach was that don't something

Lori Saitz: 00:19:06

about don't wish for the problem to be smaller wish that you grow

Lori Saitz: 00:19:12

enough to be bigger than the problem.

Jess Lilly: 00:19:16

Delicious. Those are two very delicious coachy things

Jess Lilly: 00:19:20

that you that I remember. So into those, I mean, and I love

Jess Lilly: 00:19:25

them, as you know. I think that the cool thing about surrounding

Jess Lilly: 00:19:34

yourself with coaching people and just a coaching conversation

Jess Lilly: 00:19:37

in general, whether or not you even hire a coach, like if you

Jess Lilly: 00:19:40

just surround surround yourself with people who are kind of into

Jess Lilly: 00:19:43

it, and are growth minded and dig personal development and

Jess Lilly: 00:19:47

transformation, you end up in a situation where you fall in love

Jess Lilly: 00:19:51

with breakdowns and you fall in love with the process because if

Jess Lilly: 00:19:55

you experience it enough times, overtly and on purpose, then You

Jess Lilly: 00:20:00

start to get that like, Oh, I am in the worst shit right now. But

Jess Lilly: 00:20:04

I know that means I'm close to something. And I know that I

Jess Lilly: 00:20:07

have six or seven or eight or nine people in my life that I

Jess Lilly: 00:20:10

can turn to like Lori, I have no doubt. I could call you up and

Jess Lilly: 00:20:14

say, Lori, I'm at the bottom of the well, I feel like absolute

Jess Lilly: 00:20:18

shit. I have no idea why I chose to do any of this. Please remind

Jess Lilly: 00:20:22

me, and you would be a partner to me in holding the vision and

Jess Lilly: 00:20:27

being like, No, just remember, we talked about it on my

Jess Lilly: 00:20:29

podcast.

Lori Saitz: 00:20:30

Right?

Lori Saitz: 00:20:31

Right. Right breakthroughs. You're so close.

Lori Saitz: 00:20:34

And this is exactly why people need coaches, and why people

Lori Saitz: 00:20:38

come into like, the my fuck being fine experience is for

Lori Saitz: 00:20:43

that courage. Not that you couldn't necessarily find it on

Lori Saitz: 00:20:47

your own, but it's not likely that well, and

Jess Lilly: 00:20:51

we're so you know, there's this. I'm really

Jess Lilly: 00:20:55

grateful that part of my work on the planet is to remind people

Jess Lilly: 00:21:02

that we actually aren't meant to do things alone. Like, we're

Jess Lilly: 00:21:05

kind of, you know, our culture is very hyper individualistic.

Jess Lilly: 00:21:08

And this idea of like, I'm going to muscle through make enough

Jess Lilly: 00:21:11

money. You know, whatever. I'm going to say here myself, I'm

Jess Lilly: 00:21:15

gonna just take a million baths and get 100 massages and I'm

Jess Lilly: 00:21:19

just gonna be, I'm gonna be great. It's gonna be good.

Lori Saitz: 00:21:21

I'll be I'll be fine. I'll be fine.

Jess Lilly: 00:21:24

I'll be fine. But there's this, the power of

Jess Lilly: 00:21:29

coaching and believing deeply in that we are meant to be

Jess Lilly: 00:21:33

interconnected, not codependent, not dependent but

Jess Lilly: 00:21:36

interconnected. And rely and depend on one another from from

Jess Lilly: 00:21:42

choice and from love and equality and partnership, is

Jess Lilly: 00:21:46

that it we allow so much more expansiveness into our lives.

Jess Lilly: 00:21:55

Like it's, there's a humility, that comes from saying, I need

Jess Lilly: 00:22:00

partnership in my life, because I'm a human being and life is

Jess Lilly: 00:22:02

better that way. And there's just such a missed opportunity

Jess Lilly: 00:22:06

to go into your silo, you know, when people are like, you know

Jess Lilly: 00:22:11

what, I'm going to just for another couple years, I'm going

Jess Lilly: 00:22:15

to do it on my own and just like, see what I could do on my

Jess Lilly: 00:22:17

own, there's nothing wrong with that at all. And the thing that

Jess Lilly: 00:22:23

breaks my heart in it, is, there's so much stuff that

Jess Lilly: 00:22:27

you're not able to see with your two eyes alone, right? with

Jess Lilly: 00:22:32

someone else in the conversation with you, you're just going to

Jess Lilly: 00:22:34

see so many more possibilities, you're going to be able to go

Jess Lilly: 00:22:38

past where you would normally stop alone. Because the place

Jess Lilly: 00:22:41

where we stop when we're alone is way earlier than replace you

Jess Lilly: 00:22:49

stop when your hand in hand with someone or locked arms in

Jess Lilly: 00:22:53

partnership.

Lori Saitz: 00:22:54

Yeah, exactly. Because you're pulling each

Lori Saitz: 00:22:56

other. And think about it when you go go and do anything like

Lori Saitz: 00:23:01

let's say, Go on, on vacation, and then you go somewhere with

Lori Saitz: 00:23:05

other people. And they see things differently, like, Oh,

Lori Saitz: 00:23:10

look at that, where you weren't focused, you weren't looking in

Lori Saitz: 00:23:13

that direction. You were looking over here, and they're like, oh,

Lori Saitz: 00:23:15

look over there. And you share all of that experience with each

Lori Saitz: 00:23:20

other. It's the same, same concept. It's so much more

Lori Saitz: 00:23:25

exciting that when you're when you're going somewhere cool that

Lori Saitz: 00:23:29

you go with someone or several others to share the experience,

Lori Saitz: 00:23:34

right?

Jess Lilly: 00:23:35

Yes. And I love the the posture of how you shared

Jess Lilly: 00:23:38

that is just this like, empowered choice to bring more

Jess Lilly: 00:23:42

richness into your life rather than like, Oh, I have to be with

Jess Lilly: 00:23:45

people. And Lori, this is I love that we're going in this

Jess Lilly: 00:23:49

direction together. Because I also wanted to share with you

Jess Lilly: 00:23:52

that I recently I started dating someone, I have a boyfriend,

Jess Lilly: 00:23:57

right, and I have a boyfriend, I have an actual boyfriend. It's

Jess Lilly: 00:24:01

so great. It's the same as graduations. Thank you. And it's

Jess Lilly: 00:24:05

so funny that we're talking about partnership because I have

Jess Lilly: 00:24:08

spent, you know, x years. So I had my fine, right like I

Jess Lilly: 00:24:13

created my fine. It wasn't that fine. It was a four letter word.

Jess Lilly: 00:24:17

It usually never is. No, it isn't. Lori, I created a fine,

Jess Lilly: 00:24:21

that was fine. And then I broke free of the fine. And I've been

Jess Lilly: 00:24:25

on this like messy, like a healing journey very much on my

Jess Lilly: 00:24:31

own, which it had to be on my own. A lot of the stuff that I

Jess Lilly: 00:24:34

did over the years just had to be on my own because a lot of it

Jess Lilly: 00:24:37

had to do with just me and my relationship with myself and

Jess Lilly: 00:24:40

that whatever we can go into it. It was delicious. But you know,

Jess Lilly: 00:24:44

painful, delicious, great. And it's so fun to be at a place

Jess Lilly: 00:24:49

where I now because I feel really solid in all of that

Jess Lilly: 00:24:55

piece. I'm like, Oh, now I get to do it with a partner. Like

Jess Lilly: 00:25:00

We're gonna have so much Ben. And that's such a different

Jess Lilly: 00:25:04

place than, you know, 567 years ago where I would have been

Jess Lilly: 00:25:07

like, ah, I hate being alone. Why can I you know, right? I am

Jess Lilly: 00:25:14

not the only person on the planet who has that experience,

Jess Lilly: 00:25:17

you know,

Lori Saitz: 00:25:18

not at all. There's, there's a whole world of people

Lori Saitz: 00:25:20

having that experience. But now you get to come to this

Lori Saitz: 00:25:24

partnership as a whole person, as opposed to someone who is

Lori Saitz: 00:25:28

depending on like, grandma Shirley was telling you to do,

Lori Saitz: 00:25:32

depending on the guy.

Jess Lilly: 00:25:34

And you know, my grandmother, I she was so she

Jess Lilly: 00:25:42

was so sad that when, you know, when she died, that I was

Jess Lilly: 00:25:44

single, she really, really did think that it meant that I was

Jess Lilly: 00:25:47

like, doomed to be sad for the rest of my life. She really was

Jess Lilly: 00:25:50

worried about me. But you know, she, I think she would be really

Jess Lilly: 00:25:54

proud of how conscientious I've been in filling up my own cup

Jess Lilly: 00:26:01

and doing this healing work and doing all this building my

Jess Lilly: 00:26:05

business. Yeah, no doubt she would. Yeah, she totally would.

Jess Lilly: 00:26:09

And I that gives me a little. I'm getting a little emotional

Jess Lilly: 00:26:13

about that. That's so lovely. mclamb she climbed, so I have no

Jess Lilly: 00:26:18

doubt that she also would like this. This David character.

Lori Saitz: 00:26:21

How do you know she didn't direct Him into your

Lori Saitz: 00:26:23

life?

Jess Lilly: 00:26:24

Lori, I love you. And I love you even more. I

Jess Lilly: 00:26:29

already loved you. And now you went ahead and made it even more

Jess Lilly: 00:26:33

beautiful. I? Yeah, thank you very much. What I meant to say

Jess Lilly: 00:26:38

was, thank you very much early. She was like, okay, she's ready.

Jess Lilly: 00:26:43

That whole time. That was all a charade from fear. But deep

Jess Lilly: 00:26:47

down, I was waiting to send you this particular man. Yeah, sure.

Jess Lilly: 00:26:53

She's She's magical like that. I think that's a fair point.

Lori Saitz: 00:26:56

That's probably what happened.

Jess Lilly: 00:26:58

That's probably what happened.

Lori Saitz: 00:26:59

Yeah. So now you're choosing to using this as an

Lori Saitz: 00:27:06

example, you're choosing from a place of making decisions from a

Lori Saitz: 00:27:11

place of strength, as opposed to a place of fear? Yes. Or

Lori Saitz: 00:27:17

desperation?

Jess Lilly: 00:27:18

Yep. And I think that one of the signals to me

Jess Lilly: 00:27:23

that, um, I am really grounded in that place of strength, is

Jess Lilly: 00:27:31

when I hear I used to get so pissed when people said that

Jess Lilly: 00:27:35

thing of, you have to love yourself before you can love

Jess Lilly: 00:27:38

anybody else. I used to lose it. I used to be like, what I say to

Jess Lilly: 00:27:43

my face, say it to my face, like I just I don't know what to say

Jess Lilly: 00:27:47

to my face. I just for whatever reason, I felt really like,

Jess Lilly: 00:27:51

Look, that was like an attack. I was like, Look, stop. And so I

Jess Lilly: 00:27:56

think that the, you know where I'm at right now. And look, I'm

Jess Lilly: 00:28:00

sure I'm gonna have bumps along the way and backslide and do all

Jess Lilly: 00:28:05

sorts of minor things. But I really, that doesn't. That

Jess Lilly: 00:28:11

concept doesn't irritate me. Anyway, it doesn't trigger you.

Jess Lilly: 00:28:15

It doesn't trigger me and I also am able to see the both and have

Jess Lilly: 00:28:20

like, Yeah, it does, you know, in order to be in a healthy

Jess Lilly: 00:28:22

partnership where there's like, adult love, adult fully mature,

Jess Lilly: 00:28:29

empowered love. You do need to love yourself and nourish

Jess Lilly: 00:28:33

yourself and fill yourself up. Sure that is those go hand in

Jess Lilly: 00:28:36

hand. And there's no like right way to be to be in love with

Jess Lilly: 00:28:40

something like you know, to have a party, you know, there's no

Jess Lilly: 00:28:42

right or wrong. There's no destination you have to get to

Jess Lilly: 00:28:45

before you can be experiencing love and giving love. You know,

Jess Lilly: 00:28:49

I always felt very dismissed by that by that phrase that like,

Jess Lilly: 00:28:55

Oh, I haven't loved anyone because my self love game is not

Jess Lilly: 00:28:58

super hot.

Lori Saitz: 00:28:59

Right? In which case you become the victim again,

Lori Saitz: 00:29:02

correct? Oh, no. Oh, When am I going to be? When am I When am I

Lori Saitz: 00:29:07

going to be enough? When am I going to have done enough work?

Lori Saitz: 00:29:11

When am I going to be like yeah, um, no, isn't that I'm not good

Lori Saitz: 00:29:15

enough yet.

Jess Lilly: 00:29:16

Yes. I love that. You said that. Because I think

Jess Lilly: 00:29:19

the people, you know, yes, you can go into coaching or therapy

Jess Lilly: 00:29:24

or you know, 12 step work or whatever, you can go into any

Jess Lilly: 00:29:28

work and still use it against yourself. Like, you know, you

Jess Lilly: 00:29:33

can you know, our fear brains are super wily and sneaky. And

Jess Lilly: 00:29:37

we can take pretty much anything and use it just for the same old

Jess Lilly: 00:29:41

bullshit. Like we can create a whole new status quo, which is,

Jess Lilly: 00:29:46

you know, and that's why I really respect the coaches that

Jess Lilly: 00:29:49

I work with. I really respect them because they will fire a

Jess Lilly: 00:29:53

client. They will say you're, I see how you're using this and

Jess Lilly: 00:29:57

you're using it to recreate all this bullshit, and I'm not doing

Jess Lilly: 00:30:02

that. And sometimes that's the wake up call for someone. Right?

Jess Lilly: 00:30:07

Like, I've had to say, I've had to say to clients like, Hey, who

Jess Lilly: 00:30:12

are you making? Like, who am I to you? Like, what are you using

Jess Lilly: 00:30:15

me for in this game? Because, you know, they might be too

Jess Lilly: 00:30:21

scared or unwilling or whatever, for whatever reason, they're not

Jess Lilly: 00:30:27

willing to actually open themselves up to the work

Jess Lilly: 00:30:30

necessary. So they're, they're still playing some games around

Jess Lilly: 00:30:33

things. Right. And I have to sometimes bring a lot of like,

Jess Lilly: 00:30:37

radical, rigorous, tough directness around that, so that

Jess Lilly: 00:30:44

I don't become yet another person that buys into their

Jess Lilly: 00:30:47

bullshit.

Lori Saitz: 00:30:48

Right? Right, that you right, that you're helping

Lori Saitz: 00:30:52

them become something better than when I don't know better

Lori Saitz: 00:30:57

than that you're helping them become a better version of

Lori Saitz: 00:31:01

themselves? Well, you know, rather than continuing to tell

Lori Saitz: 00:31:04

themselves the whole old story that keeps them small and

Lori Saitz: 00:31:08

victimized.

Jess Lilly: 00:31:09

Yeah. And actually, Lori, I love that you hesitated

Jess Lilly: 00:31:12

around using the words better than because I actually, I vote

Jess Lilly: 00:31:16

to not use that language. Because it's not that one way of

Jess Lilly: 00:31:21

being or looking at the world is better than another. It's just

Jess Lilly: 00:31:25

if you have a vision for your life, that is XYZ. You actually

Jess Lilly: 00:31:31

have to align who you're being and what you're doing to that in

Jess Lilly: 00:31:34

order to get that result. So right. So it's not about being

Jess Lilly: 00:31:39

better a better person. It's about Hey, like, for example,

Jess Lilly: 00:31:42

just use myself because I'm, whatever I can speak from

Jess Lilly: 00:31:46

Olympics,

Lori Saitz: 00:31:47

were the best examples. Yeah, we are. I mean,

Lori Saitz: 00:31:50

really are that's why coaching to speak. I mean, speaking from

Lori Saitz: 00:31:52

your own experience, that's all you that's all anybody can do is

Lori Saitz: 00:31:56

their own experience.

Jess Lilly: 00:31:57

Hallelujah. And I love that because, you know,

Jess Lilly: 00:32:00

sometimes people get up and they talk about how things are, and

Jess Lilly: 00:32:03

I'm the expert. And coaches are always coming from not knowing,

Jess Lilly: 00:32:07

because that's our job is to not know and be curious and to ask.

Jess Lilly: 00:32:10

So yeah, the thing I do know about is my own lived

Jess Lilly: 00:32:12

experience. And in my, in the example for me, like, you know,

Jess Lilly: 00:32:20

I could have repeated the same exact relationship patterns over

Jess Lilly: 00:32:25

and over and over again for the rest of my life. And there's

Jess Lilly: 00:32:27

actually nothing wrong with that, what I have experienced

Jess Lilly: 00:32:30

pain, sure, but I'm going to experience pain and this other

Jess Lilly: 00:32:33

thing, too, would, you know, so there's nothing actually wrong

Jess Lilly: 00:32:37

with it. However, the fact that I have a commitment to myself,

Jess Lilly: 00:32:43

and a vision, to have a life partner and to have children and

Jess Lilly: 00:32:46

to do all that cool stuff. That old way of looking at things and

Jess Lilly: 00:32:53

behaving and choosing is not going to cut it, to bring that

Jess Lilly: 00:32:58

forth. And it's delusional to think that I can keep doing that

Jess Lilly: 00:33:01

same old stuff, and and then somehow get to my vision. So if

Jess Lilly: 00:33:05

I really, if I told you, Lori, hey, my vision is actually I

Jess Lilly: 00:33:08

want to be alone. I want to just, you know, stay

Jess Lilly: 00:33:12

comfortable. I want to be surrounded by people who are

Jess Lilly: 00:33:15

okay with my bullshit and will let me you know, they'll let me

Jess Lilly: 00:33:20

slide every, you know, they'll, they'll, every time, they'll

Jess Lilly: 00:33:23

accommodate my codependency, they'll accommodate my low self

Jess Lilly: 00:33:26

esteem, they'll accommodate all that shit. I could have done

Jess Lilly: 00:33:30

that. And you know what, maybe I would have had a good time,

Jess Lilly: 00:33:32

really, who knows, I would have had some good times and bad

Jess Lilly: 00:33:34

times, who knows. But what I just chose to do is say

Jess Lilly: 00:33:38

Actually, I want to achieve that experience of myself that is

Jess Lilly: 00:33:47

fully tapping into my potential, fully embracing my authentic

Jess Lilly: 00:33:53

self, my sensitivity, my, my calling my in my purpose, and

Jess Lilly: 00:33:59

create a life that is scary to me. Like, I want to create a

Jess Lilly: 00:34:04

vision that actually scares the shit out of me. And I'm going to

Jess Lilly: 00:34:07

have to be really brave to continue to choose it over and

Jess Lilly: 00:34:11

over again. And it's juicy and painful and joyful and

Jess Lilly: 00:34:16

fulfilling. Still pain to go back to our other or other

Jess Lilly: 00:34:21

conversation. But But if you and I really landing on this whole,

Jess Lilly: 00:34:27

there's actually not one better. There's not one better way to

Jess Lilly: 00:34:31

live and something else right. Is that means a lot to me. I

Jess Lilly: 00:34:35

think that's important.

Lori Saitz: 00:34:36

Yeah, I love that you are challenging yourself, to

Lori Saitz: 00:34:41

be the person you need to be to get to that vision that you want

Lori Saitz: 00:34:46

to get to. Yeah, and that is a great place to end our

Lori Saitz: 00:34:50

conversation but not completely end it because what the question

Lori Saitz: 00:34:54

that always comes next, what is your hype song? What's the song

Lori Saitz: 00:34:58

you listen to and you need to get charged up? And enthused,

Lori Saitz: 00:35:02

and infused with energy.

Jess Lilly: 00:35:05

Let me clear my throat. Da Na Na. That's how it

Jess Lilly: 00:35:09

goes. It's DJ cool. It's Let me clear my throat. It's amazing.

Jess Lilly: 00:35:13

It's from 1998. Maybe it's from before that, and I just was

Jess Lilly: 00:35:16

introduced to it in 1998. It makes me so happy and all of I'm

Jess Lilly: 00:35:22

going to send this podcast to my childhood friends, and they're

Jess Lilly: 00:35:25

going to get a kick out of that, that I chose that song.

Lori Saitz: 00:35:27

Awesome. All right, well, so if somebody is not your

Lori Saitz: 00:35:31

childhood friend, and they want to know how to get in touch with

Lori Saitz: 00:35:34

you, I want someone do that.

Jess Lilly: 00:35:38

You can visit Jess Lilly Coaching dot com. And

Jess Lilly: 00:35:41

there is a contact form. Please fill that out. And I offer 45

Jess Lilly: 00:35:47

minute complimentary discovery sessions for folks who want to

Jess Lilly: 00:35:50

give coaching a world it is totally, you know, I'm really

Jess Lilly: 00:35:54

committed to people understanding the differences,

Jess Lilly: 00:35:56

like I said before, the differences between therapy,

Jess Lilly: 00:35:59

coaching and consulting. And so yeah, hop on there, reach out

Jess Lilly: 00:36:03

and I'll get in touch with you.

Lori Saitz: 00:36:06

Excellent. We'll put a link in the show notes for

Lori Saitz: 00:36:08

that. So we'll make it really easy for people to be able to

Lori Saitz: 00:36:11

find you and also a link to your song. So they can Yeah, dance

Lori Saitz: 00:36:16

the way you you do or dance in their own style, I guess.

Lori Saitz: 00:36:21

Probably not likely.

Jess Lilly: 00:36:23

Well, Lori, next time, I would have to do the

Jess Lilly: 00:36:25

dance so they could see really the full picture of what happens

Jess Lilly: 00:36:29

when I listen to that song. Yes.

Lori Saitz: 00:36:31

Okay, well, maybe we'll put a picture of that in

Lori Saitz: 00:36:33

the promo video right now, but yeah. Okay. Jess, thank you so

Lori Saitz: 00:36:40

much for joining me today on Fine is a 4-Letter Word.

Jess Lilly: 00:36:44

Thank you, Lori. It was fun.