39. (S2E3) Unleash Your Joy with Carol Banens

Lori Saitz: 00:01

Hello and welcome to Fine is a 4-Letter Word in this episode. I'm excited to bring you Carol Banens. Did I pronounce that right? Because I forgot to ask you did. Okay. Yeah. Interview. Point number one learn the guests name. Yeah.

Carol Banens: 00:21

Well, yeah, well, everybody's doing the same thing.

Lori Saitz: 00:25

Welcome to the show today. Let's thank you so much. It's Yeah, Yeah, my pleasure. Let's jump right into it. And talk about the values and the beliefs that you were raised with that helped contribute to who you become as an adult.

Carol Banens: 00:43

Whoo, I wasn't expecting that. Well, you know, I was brought up in England. So I think we had pretty strict values. My My dad was a surgeon, my mum was a nurse. And so certainly caring was one of them. Family was a really big one. We would always have big get togethers for Christmas and Easter. We didn't of course, have Thanksgiving. But we had all those lovely get togethers. I think a work ethic, a hard work ethic was a really a big one. Education was another big one. I think it was less of the touchy feely although the family was more from my mom's side, but I think really education, learning, caring, integrity, all of those.

Lori Saitz: 01:28

Were you words your family. open to sharing emotion.

Carol Banens: 01:34

Oh, God, no. Emotions. No, no. Ma English. And I think you know, I think I must have been Italian in last life because I'm all kind of warm and fuzzy and Huggy. But my, my mum and dad weren't my dad certainly wasn't mum was in later years. But no, we never discussed emotions. In fact, this is very sad. I had a sister who died when I was nine. And it was an accident. My dad said Susie has died. And that is the last I ever heard of it. Wow. We didn't have a funeral. We didn't have a memorial. This was in 1973. We had nothing. Now my mother, of course, was in pieces, of course, sure. But she couldn't. She couldn't talk about her. And so what I've learned really, in my life, having lost my husband three years ago, is talking about the people you've lost, actually keeps their memory alive. And I just think it's so sad that that culture, couldn't talk about death couldn't talk about the love that we had for someone Now bear in mind, she was 21. I mean, it was a terrible loss. But none of the other brothers and sisters, none of us knew anything about what had happened. Wow, I didn't find out until 20 years ago, actually, when my dad died. And his best friend told me this is what happened. That's, um, yeah, so no. Emotions, were just not, you know, not discussed. They weren't even there.

Lori Saitz: 03:09

Wow, that is that is a quite a story. To be to, and, and a burden for you to carry. As I think, yeah, not knowing what happened and not being able to talk about it and process the emotions around it, and then seeing the effect that that had on your mom. And yeah, so you mentioned though, that you are more warm and fuzzy. Where did that come from?

Carol Banens: 03:38

Do you know what I really don't know, I think I'm maybe my Nana, I loved my Nana, you know, and she was just she was warm. My mom was warm, but but we didn't talk about feelings and things. And she showed her love through cooking and doing things like that. But, you know, I'm a physical therapist retiring. So for a long time, you know, people have been in my care. And it's a lot of touching and looking after and listening. And I think that warmth has to grow. You have to have warmth in that sort of profession to be good and to build relationships with people. But I think it comes fairly naturally to me, I don't I don't really know where it came from. Sure. I'm kind of warm and fuzzy.

Lori Saitz: 04:17

That that and how has that served you?

Carol Banens: 04:21

I think it served me very well in many ways. But you know, you can get on that warm fuzzy side and be a little bit too nice and people pleasing. So you know, I've had to learn about that. Or, you know, you get to this midlife and you're thinking wait a minute. I'm always putting other people first. What about me? So I think I learned that from my mother a bit of a self sacrifice so she she did everything for everyone, particularly my dad and you learn from that, don't you? And so, yes, it's been great. And now I need to learn those healthy boundaries or I've been having to learn how to put healthy boundaries in place.

Lori Saitz: 04:59

Yeah. boundaries and balance are the things I think we are all doing a better job of as we have gotten older, at least a lot of the people that I've been talking to have, and not that that has come easily to us.

Carol Banens: 05:17

No, I don't think it does. I think it's really difficult for us because we weren't brought up. First of all, I'd never heard of a healthy boundary when I was in England or growing up. I mean, you know, what's a boundary? And, and to be honest, not until I really started thinking, doing cranial sacral therapy, but also then life life coaching, ever talked about boundaries, I didn't really know what they were. And until I realized I was letting people cross mine all the time. And then it's like, oh, that's what a boundary is. It's actually saying no, occasionally, yeah, actually saying yes to myself, which was something that one didn't really do.

Lori Saitz: 05:54

You just the other day, I was on a phone call with somebody, and we were talking about the fact that no, is a complete sentence. You don't have to give an explanation to somebody if you don't want to do something. Yeah, no.

Carol Banens: 06:12

And yet, it's complete. And yet as women, we tend to feel we have to, you know, give validation? It's no, because because I'm so busy, or I just can't, but I really want to and, and it's sort of with our value, isn't it? We feel that if we say no, say no, we're not going to be valued.

Lori Saitz: 06:31

Right. And now we owe them, whoever it is an explanation as to why we said no, they don't. Yeah, necessary. I don't want to say they don't deserve but nobody, you don't have to. You can just say no.

06:45

No, no. And you know, when people say Can I ask you a question? Of course, the answer is, yes, that's a complete sentence. But you may not like the answer. And, and you don't have to always, as you say, validate why you say no, it's, it's interesting, isn't it? And I think that's something we have to learn. And practice.

Lori Saitz: 07:04

I agree, and learning how to say what we want to say, in a way that we're not asking for permission to say it.

Carol Banens: 07:18

Yeah, just feeling okay, saying it, feeling that we are, we deserve to be able to speak our opinion. And again, that comes from all that upbringing, especially when you're over 50, which I am and women I deal with are, we weren't really allowed to say our opinion, you sort of sort of stood back you let your father or the men in your life or it was a bit of a patriarchal society. And so it wasn't nice to speak up nice girls didn't. So to now get in your 50s and start to try to use that voice to say no, it's actually quite challenging.

Lori Saitz: 07:53

Yeah. And I have to preface things with Well, in my humble opinion, or I'm sorry, but can I just add this, like, can I just I'm sorry, I'm sorry, drives me insane. When I hear people saying it, and I just, I just whatever, I just want to add this. I just like to do this just just needed take that word away.

Carol Banens: 08:22

I know it's funny. It's a bit like the should word but the just Word is true. Right. And I know I'm guilty of using that. I just wanted to say that nibbler.

Lori Saitz: 08:31

Yeah. Awareness, though, is key. If we bring it up here in this conversation, and somebody is listening, and they hear us talking about it, the next time they use those words, they're going to catch themselves. And maybe it'll take a few times before they stopped doing it. Because you do it a few times, and you catch yourself and then and then next time you catch yourself before it comes out of your mouth.

Carol Banens: 08:56

It's so true, isn't it and the words we use matter so much coaching a lady the other day and she said, I'm so stressed I'm meeting that I'm missing that meeting and I said really? It stressed the right word. Is that what you mean? She said? No, really? I've been disappointed. I said exactly. So to when we did our coaching session this week. i She specifically was careful about not using stress. Now she's woken up to it. Now she's aware. So awareness really is everything, isn't it?

Lori Saitz: 09:25

It really is. And I used to get into conversations put it in nicely with my mother about semantics. It's just a man. It just it's just semantics. Yeah. It's not but it matters semantics matter. And they do. It matters and it matters. The value. Each person has a way of expressing so different words could mean different things to different people. And so semantics matters in that way. And then it also matters in the way that you're talking about you pointed out to your client, are you stressed? Or are you really disappointed that finding the right way. And I think this goes back to what we were just talking about a few minutes ago, and that not being being taught that we don't have emotions, or not to show emotions, that actually wasn't the case of my family. But a lot of my podcast, guests have it have shared that they were raised to not have emotions. So finding the right way of expressing your emotions, and using the right words is more challenging, because that wasn't something you were raised to do.

Carol Banens: 10:45

No, that's so interesting, isn't it? And then you think of the the sort of huge vocabulary that we could use to describe emotions, you know, looking at, like, if you looked at Abraham Hicks at the emotional guidance, yes, I love only about 22 there, so do I. But that, but there are so many words we can use that we can replace another word with, it's maybe not so aggressive or so depressing, or, or makes you feel a little better. But you know, it's interesting, because I deal with pain patients in my physical therapy realm. And we do a lot about how you're using the words, you know, my back is killing me, my back is broken. Now. Let's change it because it becomes a threat to your nervous system, the way you're talking. ramps up the pain. So it's a bit the same with emotional pain. If you keep saying I'm stressed, I'm stressed, I'm stressed, well, guess how you're going to feel? You're going to feel stressed. And perhaps that wasn't the right word. But perhaps you don't know what other word to use. And that's where we come in as coaches, isn't it that you can guide people to say, is that really true?

Lori Saitz: 11:49

I'm so glad you brought that up. Because right, if you keep telling yourself a certain thing, your mind starts believing it and looking for ways to make it even more real and reinforce it totally,

Carol Banens: 12:05

totally looks for evidence, doesn't it? It looks for the evidence that you're stressed. And guess what it always finds it? It does, right?

Lori Saitz: 12:12

Because you your mind will always find what you're looking for whether it's positive or negative, you will find it evidence to support your belief.

Carol Banens: 12:23

It is and you know what, that's what I love that I've been able to transfer all that neuroplasticity knowledge over to life coaching, grooving the pattern and saying the same thing over and over and over and over? Well, if it's I'm stressed, I'm stressed, I'm stressed. That's how you'll feel. But can we change it? Can we change the firing? Can we make a new path? Can we, you know, visualizations, how do we use that too? Because the brain doesn't know the difference between real and imagined. So why not imagined something nice? Yeah. Instead of catastrophizing of something that's going to be terrible.

Lori Saitz: 12:58

Catastrophizing. One of my favorite words, not favorite word. But it's a very descriptive word and because it creates a picture, a very yeah, clear picture in your mind. Yes. i When I'm doing presentations, and I asked people we are we're talking about visualization. What does you know, you can visualize positive outcomes or negative outcomes. What does, what's it called when you visualize negative outcomes? And people sit there thinking, what is it called? What is it called? It's called worrying.

Carol Banens: 13:31

Yes, yes. And, and I love it, because it brings us into mindfulness and anxiety and depression. And, and, you know, I was doing the talk today and, and 47% of the time, we're not in the present moment, we're thinking somewhere else. And it's usually something negative isn't it is worry about what went on or anxiety about the future. And so, really learning about how we speak and how we think and what beliefs we have. Those are the things we have to work on to change those sort of inner things, aren't they?

Lori Saitz: 14:01

Yes, you did you say 47%

Carol Banens: 14:05

47% of the time, our mind is wandering. We're not in the presence of basically half our life. We're not where we are.

Lori Saitz: 14:12

I'm surprised. Well, I was gonna say I'm surprised it's not higher.

Carol Banens: 14:18

Well, it may be for some people, right? I mean, that's the average. Maybe some people that are way more off with that.

Lori Saitz: 14:26

I think a lot of people spend so much time thinking about the past and worrying about things that happened instead of focusing on the present and the future and I was actually doing a presentation this morning for a group and use the the analogy of it well in American football there you know,

Carol Banens: 14:52

all right, my my late husband loved it, so I'm good with okay.

Lori Saitz: 14:56

But you know, that it's that season as we're recording this. Quarterback comes in, he throws an interception. And he has to go back out on the field in five minutes or 10 minutes, however much time not, you know, not hours even. And not think about what he just did in the last play, put his head fully in to this moment and moving forward. Yep. The end athletes, all all athletes have to do that, and really business people do to the ones who are successful. And it's not just athletes in business, it's, it's in life overall. Not that you don't learn from the past mistakes, but you don't dwell on them and drag them around forever.

Carol Banens: 15:44

is, isn't there a saying give up all hope of creating a better past? I mean, you can go over it 50 times, it doesn't matter. It's done. It's done. We can't change it. And and we all do we all do it. You know, if only I had done this. I mean, how many times have we said that, but you know, there has to be a limit on saying, Okay, if only I had, is there something I can learn from this? What's the lesson? Maybe next time that comes up? I'm going to do it a different way. Maybe I'm not going to get together with those people. They're not good for me. But but we can't live in that past. It's not, you know, it's not going to help us. Yeah,

Lori Saitz: 16:20

I appreciate that. You just made that comment about learning from the past. That's what it's that's what it's good for. is learning. Yes. I'm making different choices moving forward.

Carol Banens: 16:36

Yes. Yes, I think so. And life is about learning, isn't it? That's the whole thing. You need to be learning every day from every experience. And if it's a bad one, and we're all gonna have bad ones, and we're all gonna do something wrong. Nobody's perfect. How can I do it better next time, rather than berating yourself over and over and over for something you did wrong? Yeah, make mistakes. We're human.

Lori Saitz: 17:02

I was just gonna say at this at the core of this, though, and we are human. So yeah, not to say that we won't still dwell in the past. It's, again, becoming aware of what you're doing. And making a change. I see a theme in this episode. awareness. Awareness, being aware.

Carol Banens: 17:25

awareness isn't an interesting, I mean, awareness is so key to life. I just did a Facebook Live talking about you know, are you running on autopilot? That's being unaware, isn't it? You know, it's good that we have these automatic functions that our brain does all the stuff without our thinking. So we don't have to think those 35,000 thoughts a day. But when it becomes your whole life is just so automatic. You've lost awareness. And when you've lost awareness, you've lost the opportunity to enjoy life, right? You're not? You're not engaging in life. And that's really what we want.

Lori Saitz: 18:01

Yeah, yeah. Because the show is called Fine is a 4-Letter Word. Is there a time when you your life was fine, or at least you were saying it was fine, but it really wasn't fine.

Carol Banens: 18:15

Hmm, many times. But I think the hardest time of course, I mentioned my husband passed away about three and a half years ago. And I went to work book very quickly afterwards. So I went to work three days after his funeral patients and of course, they would say to me, how are you? And what would I say? I'm fine. I was not fine. I was not really fine for quite a long time. And I'm still at moments, not fine. And it's just easier, I think, for us to say, I'm fine, because you just wonder, do people really want to hear how you are? To do they care? Now? I was actually lucky. I would say my patients really did. They were very kind and very nurturing to me. I don't know who was treating who at that time. Really? Really? Yeah. But we often do that to avoid people pleasing thing to avoid causing the other person that discomfort of actually hearing. Actually, I'm not doing that. Well. I'm really sad or God, I miss him, or it's really tough. Yeah, it's really tough. And it's just easier to say actually, I'm fine.

Lori Saitz: 19:25

You mentioned at the beginning of our conversation, that it's about keeping the memories alive. And when you say, I'm really feeling sad, or I'm having a rough time, you're opening the door for the other person to help you. What's the word I'm looking for to help you memorize, not memorize. Process, but also talk about that person. Yes.

Carol Banens: 20:00

Totally, totally. And, you know, in many ways, I've been fortunate because my husband was a jazz pianist. So a lot of people knew him. And so his memory has been kept very much alive, certainly with his music, but also because people would say, Oh, do you remember when Brian would do this or say that and so I feel he's very present. So I feel very lucky about that. And very sad that for my lovely sister who I adored I was little. That's why I was a physiotherapist because she was a physiotherapist. And she came home and used to show me stuff and, and how sad that we don't have those memories of her. In fact, when my dad died, my nephew said, Carol, can you tell me anything about Susie? Because dad, my brother doesn't ever talk about her. So why not much. I have nine. But this is what I can tell you. That that is fast. Talking is talking about people for me, I think is is really key to helping you with your grief. It's not that you get over it, but it helps you deal with it. You have to do it maybe a little at a time. It just keeps all those beautiful memories alive that there are and the love.

Lori Saitz: 21:14

Yeah. Yeah. And I think on both sides of the equation, people are reluctant like you said, you would say you're fine, because you don't want to burden them. And they would not press to ask more because they didn't want to be intrusive, or they were afraid to afraid to talk about him because they didn't want to make you more sad. When really

Carol Banens: 21:38

want to hurt you. Yeah, yes. It might have been better to talk. Right?

Lori Saitz: 21:42

Yeah, yeah. So there, that's a key takeaway for anybody listening to this in terms of, you know, helping friends or colleagues or family members who are going through a grief process to it's okay to talk about

Carol Banens: 21:57

Yeah, I would say don't don't, it's really uncomfortable for the person for people who are asking the questions, you know, are you okay? But, but you know, what, don't maybe not, are you okay? Because you're not okay. But you know, what is some lovely memory you have about Joanne or whoever it is you've lost? To have a really special memory. I mean, sort of gauge the moment, but sometimes being able to share that special, because we know when you say you Okay, no, no. So find no, they're not going to be okay. Of course not. They've lost someone they loved. Yeah. What's your lovely memory that you have of that person? That might open up the conversation a bit?

Lori Saitz: 22:40

That's a beautiful question to ask. I'm always looking for what are better questions to ask in any conversation? And that Yeah, right. Knowing, asking the right question is the key to building a relationship.

Carol Banens: 22:57

It is it is one of the questions, of course, which we all do is how are you doing? And I used to, I wanted to say, how do you think I’m doing? People don't know, right? You don't know until you're going through it? You don't know what's going to irritate you. So yeah, you know, do change the question, think about the question before you, you ask it, because how are you doing? Probably not good. But you're going to say, I'm fine. Right?

Lori Saitz: 23:23

Right. Because that's how we're out of your mouth. That's our societal training. So yeah. Yeah. What are some of the tools that you've used to process and move? You know, between that day and today?

Carol Banens: 23:42

Well, some grief counseling initially, and actually, even again, so recently, because I thought, I think I still need some because the grief was so much I think I had to titrate it, I couldn't deal with it all at once. So I was in a better place now. A lot of self compassion. I think a lot of self compassion work, a lot of self acceptance, gratitude, hugely useful, even when you don't feel like it. Even when you think I've got nothing to be grateful for. Of course, you have Yeah, I don't care whether it's your warm bed, you know, I'm in Canada, it's pretty cold. Whether it's a cup of coffee, whether it's the smile from somebody at the cashier at the shop, whatever it is, that there are little things we can always find to be in gratitude for. I think that is huge, really looking through your day for small things, rather than sinking so low and listen, you know, I'm not a Pollyanna. I sat on that sofa for a year not knowing how it's going to get up. I watched episode after episode on Netflix. I was so exhausted and leaden with grief. So I'm better now. I wasn't then. But I still practiced my gratitude. And for me, I had great friends beautiful friends who were supportive who would invite me for lunch and who I could say I'm done. I have to go now because I'm too tired. So the social connection is is was key for me but a lot of gratitude a lot of inner work of now what?

Lori Saitz: 25:15

The Curiosity again?

25:17

Yeah because now I'm not the same person I am not the same Carol by myself as I was when it was Carol and Brian, right. It's a different, you're different. And you have to you have to go in on a journey of rediscovery I think of figuring it out. And I was pretty young. I was 54 when he died. So, you know, so a lot of life left there. My mum died at 92. So I knew I had nearly 35 years still, I

Lori Saitz: 25:43

Still almost half your life left.

Carol Banens: 25:45

Still almost half my life left. So you know, I couldn't just stay sitting on that sofa.

Lori Saitz: 25:50

Yeah. Did you keep a journal with the gratitude?

Carol Banens: 25:54

I do every night. I have done for years. Yeah, I do. And I, I also journaled about, you know how I was feeling at that time? I do a five year joke on journals everywhere. But yes, a gratitude journal I've done every night. Yeah.

Lori Saitz: 26:09

Yeah, I like time. Like that. Yeah, all of those pieces are important. And again, going back to you will find what you're looking for when you are, are consciously looking for gratitude things to be grateful for you again, find more of them.

Carol Banens: 26:29

You really do. You really do. Rick Hanson, a psychologist talks about taking in the good and I love this idea. He said, You know, when you're going through the day, and you find something, rather than just sort of saying, Oh, that's nice, really expand the experience, whether it's just your cup of coffee with the aroma and the warmth, and how it feels is, as you do that in a positive attitude. It starts to rewire your brain for positivity. There are lots of little things we can do in the day to do take in the good. So yeah, the more you look for it, the more you find it, the more negative, the more sad you feel, you go down that black hole. And of course, you should honor your feelings. And yes, you need to sit with your service. And that's difficult. But you don't want to stay there forever. You have to feel it though. And that's a challenge because I think a lot of people just put i shelved it. I did. That's why I'm back in grief counseling, I shelled it so I could keep working. I know other people who just get super busy so that they don't have to deal with it at some point when you're ready. You do need to deal with those emotions. Possibly because I never did in the past. It was hard for me but we have to deal with them. It's not about being positive toxic positivity. Be with emotions, self acceptance, self compassion, and from there the gratitude and finding the good.

Lori Saitz: 27:59

Wow, you just so perfectly describe that entire process and concept. Yeah, yeah. Oh, good. Yeah, well, let me ask you one more question. Okay. And that is, what is the song that you listen to when you need a boost of inspiration? You're you're you're done processing those feelings for the moment and you want to raise your vibration we were talking about the Abraham Hicks scale Yep. And yeah, if you're not familiar actually maybe I'll put a link to that in the show notes so people can see what we're talking about when you want to boost yourself up that that emotional scale ladder What's the song you go to?

Carol Banens: 28:54

I love Bill Withers Lovely Day I love that takes me back years ago, you know, like 30 something years ago, but it's just upbeat and it's lovely. And I have to say before I do a Facebook Live, that's what I either put on or I listened to to just build up my energy so that I'm, I'm in a good space when I do a Facebook Live.

Lori Saitz: 29:13

Very nice. That's such a great idea.

Carol Banens: 29:18

It's funny, I told my stepdaughter about putting on a song to to raise her energy before interviews and things and she does that now she thinks it's the most wonderful thing. She's I put on that song and I'm she's just got a new job. So she's super excited. But yeah, music helps.

Lori Saitz: 29:32

Definitely helps. I love I love music, which is why I asked this question of all my guests because I'm always interested in in their musical choices.

Carol Banens: 29:42

And two people come up with the same one, or is it a really broad spec?

Lori Saitz: 29:46

It's been a really broad spectrum. And yeah, not even all of them haven't been popular songs. Some of them are. Well, I'm thinking of one person in particular that was just there weren't there aren't even words to the song. It's just very Inspirational music all kinds of things. If people want to continue a conversation with you where's the best place for them to find you?

Carol Banens: 30:11

I would say my websites the best place www Carol Banens, which is b a n e n s.com. There you can from there you can join my Facebook group for women over 50 Unleash your joy. Women over 50 Unleash your joy, you can email me there's an Instagram link. So that's probably the best place to to get in touch with me and I would love to chat to you and see if I can help you.

Lori Saitz: 30:39

Fabulous. We will put links to all of that in the show notes as well. Thank you so much for joining me today Carol on Fine is a 4-Letter Word.

Carol Banens: 30:48

Pleasure was all mine Thank you