26. (S1E26) Using Your Values As A Filter with Nicole BZ

Lori Saitz: 00:00:02

Hello, and welcome to Fine is a 4-Letter Word. My

Lori Saitz: 00:00:05

guest today is Nicole BZ. And Nicole and I were introduced by

Lori Saitz: 00:00:11

the magnificent Carolyn Herfurth. So I just want to give

Lori Saitz: 00:00:14

a shout out to her and say welcome to the podcast, Nicole.

Nicole BZ: 00:00:19

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm truly

Nicole BZ: 00:00:22

honored to be here because fuck fine.

Lori Saitz: 00:00:25

That's right. That's what we say around here. Yeah.

Lori Saitz: 00:00:30

So yeah, I have a lot of notes from our original conversation,

Lori Saitz: 00:00:34

and I am super eager about getting into hearing your story

Lori Saitz: 00:00:38

sharing your story with with all the listeners, and let's start

Lori Saitz: 00:00:42

out with what were the beliefs and values that were instilled

Lori Saitz: 00:00:48

in you as you were growing up, that perhaps contributed to some

Lori Saitz: 00:00:54

of the decisions and pads that you took as you grew up?

Nicole BZ: 00:00:58

Fantastic question, I have first generation and so I

Nicole BZ: 00:01:03

was very much taught to work and work hard. I was also taught

Nicole BZ: 00:01:09

that, you know, they can take everything, but they can't take

Nicole BZ: 00:01:12

what's up in here, and I'm pointing at my brain hole for

Nicole BZ: 00:01:15

everybody who can't see. So you know, essentially, what you

Nicole BZ: 00:01:18

learn what you know, and what you do, is who you are. And I

Nicole BZ: 00:01:24

have carried that with me. I went through I have actually a

Nicole BZ: 00:01:28

survivor, I had cancer when I was younger, so that just

Nicole BZ: 00:01:31

compounded that work ethic that take life. You know, you are in

Nicole BZ: 00:01:37

control of your own experience, you create your own reality. And

Nicole BZ: 00:01:40

the fastest way to change anything is to change your

Nicole BZ: 00:01:42

perspective. And then you just put one foot in front of the

Nicole BZ: 00:01:45

other and you keep going the only way you fail is if you

Nicole BZ: 00:01:47

quit.

Lori Saitz: 00:01:48

Were you taught that failure that that's what failure

Lori Saitz: 00:01:51

meant was the only way to fail is to quit, or was there a diff?

Nicole BZ: 00:01:55

I don't know, there was lots of definitions. My

Nicole BZ: 00:02:01

parents have a fairly narrow view of what successes and I

Nicole BZ: 00:02:05

think for most of us, you know, it looks like a mortgage and two

Nicole BZ: 00:02:09

kids, half a dog and a career that you spend 40 years then

Nicole BZ: 00:02:14

with a 401k plan that will carry you after those that was the

Nicole BZ: 00:02:17

definition of success. So very much carved out a very different

Nicole BZ: 00:02:22

definition for myself and a path that I walk.

Unknown: 00:02:25

Yeah. So then what? So many questions. Okay, so tell,

Unknown: 00:02:30

cuz I know a little bit about your path. So share a little bit

Unknown: 00:02:33

about where you went first, on your career path. And then I'm

Unknown: 00:02:38

also curious to know how that went over in your family, given

Unknown: 00:02:41

what you just said.

Unknown: 00:02:43

Thank you. So I'll try and keep it brief. Because it's been it's

Unknown: 00:02:46

been a long and winding road. So I started working really young,

Unknown: 00:02:52

I got my first job at 14, I worked full time while I was in

Unknown: 00:02:56

college. And I mean, I didn't even go to graduation, I went to

Unknown: 00:02:59

work that you know, and I keep going back to this fine idea

Unknown: 00:03:05

because that's where you and I connected. You know, everything

Unknown: 00:03:07

was fine. I was I had a leadership position and an

Unknown: 00:03:10

amazing organization I was, you know, earning $50,000 a year

Unknown: 00:03:15

before I even graduated from college it I was on the quote

Unknown: 00:03:19

unquote, right path, but it just wasn't doing it for me. And so I

Unknown: 00:03:26

took a giant leap of faith I because I'd worked so much I

Unknown: 00:03:29

never got like that year abroad experience. And traveling is

Unknown: 00:03:31

something really close to me. So again, long story short, I ended

Unknown: 00:03:34

up in Australia. Following my heart following my passion,

Unknown: 00:03:39

which was music, as much as I love the creative arts, my

Unknown: 00:03:44

strength has always been in business. So despite the

Unknown: 00:03:47

positions that I put myself in, I always ended up managing that

Unknown: 00:03:51

space. And so I just kind of went with that and started my

Unknown: 00:03:54

first business at 23 started several more to my family's

Unknown: 00:03:59

disdain. And the good news is, is I in my perseverance, I've

Unknown: 00:04:05

demonstrated to them that I'm okay, and they don't have to

Unknown: 00:04:08

worry about me. But does that mean they're on board? Or they

Unknown: 00:04:12

understand? No, and that's the thing that's okay. I mean, one

Unknown: 00:04:16

of the things that happens when you're a trailblazer, would you

Unknown: 00:04:18

create your own definition of success? Would you say fuck you

Unknown: 00:04:21

fine. You are confident and who you are and how you're showing

Unknown: 00:04:25

up and what you're doing. And it's okay if other people don't

Unknown: 00:04:27

get that. And so I think I answered your question. Yeah.

Unknown: 00:04:32

Just to kind of wrap it up and where I'm at now. So ironically,

Unknown: 00:04:37

ironic. Yeah, my mom got sick. And so I left Australia and move

Unknown: 00:04:41

back to the States, burned it all down, you know, had to start

Unknown: 00:04:44

completely over. ended up in business again, and working in

Unknown: 00:04:50

music, which I never thought was gonna happen. But when you take

Unknown: 00:04:52

those crazy leaps of faith, amazing things tend to happen.

Unknown: 00:04:57

So I now have a A business where I have the flexibility I'm able

Unknown: 00:05:02

to go back and forth and support my mom. I actually just got back

Unknown: 00:05:04

yesterday, and I'm able to work from anywhere and still

Unknown: 00:05:09

trailblazing and still confusing the hell out of my parents. So

Unknown: 00:05:15

some things never change.

Lori Saitz: 00:05:17

I do you have siblings?

Nicole BZ: 00:05:20

I do I have two younger brothers.

Lori Saitz: 00:05:21

Did they follow a more traditional path? I'm just

Lori Saitz: 00:05:24

curious.

Nicole BZ: 00:05:24

My youngest absolutely. My brother, the

Nicole BZ: 00:05:27

middle child, he's he gets a lot of support from my parents for a

Nicole BZ: 00:05:32

variety of different reasons. So we're all doing completely

Nicole BZ: 00:05:35

different things. But okay, yeah, the My youngest brother is

Nicole BZ: 00:05:38

carrying the torch. So hopefully he has some grandbabies for my

Nicole BZ: 00:05:41

parents soon.

Lori Saitz: 00:05:43

Right. Right. But you're the oldest so that also I

Lori Saitz: 00:05:47

am. Yeah. And so my it makes us the, like, we have to clear the

Lori Saitz: 00:05:52

trail for the ones behind us.

Nicole BZ: 00:05:54

Oh, yeah. He's, he's good about admitting that I've

Nicole BZ: 00:05:58

made things a hell of a lot easier for him. I may, I may

Nicole BZ: 00:06:01

have broken a few souls in that process.

Lori Saitz: 00:06:06

Again, that's more about them than you. Yeah, true.

Lori Saitz: 00:06:10

Right. Right. Yeah. So when so we had talked so you spent 18

Lori Saitz: 00:06:14

years in the music industry?

Nicole BZ: 00:06:17

I did. Uh, yeah. I mean, like, I think I started

Nicole BZ: 00:06:22

around 19 and I officially retired at 38. So yeah, it was a

Nicole BZ: 00:06:28

wild ride.

Lori Saitz: 00:06:30

What was it that made you decide to leave that

Lori Saitz: 00:06:35

industry? Cuz it's not I mean, like people, you know, again,

Lori Saitz: 00:06:39

people look at it from the outside, and they're like, Oh,

Lori Saitz: 00:06:41

my God, that sounds so romantic, not romantic, what like, just

Lori Saitz: 00:06:46

like, it's just sounds so cool.

Nicole BZ: 00:06:47

Oh it was amazing. And the my last step, my last

Nicole BZ: 00:06:51

couple years, where were dreams that I didn't know were

Nicole BZ: 00:06:54

possible, I was working with one of my best friends with a an

Nicole BZ: 00:06:58

artist to get to do all of the things that you dream about

Nicole BZ: 00:07:01

artists getting to do you know, headlining that all of the

Nicole BZ: 00:07:05

festivals that you've heard of making, you know, six figure

Nicole BZ: 00:07:08

checks and a gag and traveling around the world and a list and

Nicole BZ: 00:07:12

it was it was a dream, it was a dream. I had always said, since

Nicole BZ: 00:07:18

I got started, that I was not planning on being a lifer, which

Nicole BZ: 00:07:23

is how they refer to it. And at least in the music industry, I

Nicole BZ: 00:07:26

would assume it happens in other industries as well. And I mean,

Nicole BZ: 00:07:29

even 20 years is a pretty good run. And so at you know, at 20,

Nicole BZ: 00:07:33

I was like not past 25 and 25, I was like not past 30, and so on

Nicole BZ: 00:07:37

and so forth. And I don't know if I kind of set myself up for a

Nicole BZ: 00:07:42

phoenix rising from the ashes moment with those limitations.

Nicole BZ: 00:07:45

But my intention had never been to spend the rest of my life in

Nicole BZ: 00:07:52

artists management, and it was just what was one of those

Nicole BZ: 00:07:54

things that happened where I would see a problem and I saw

Nicole BZ: 00:07:56

that and then I built a business around it, problem solved and

Nicole BZ: 00:08:00

then built a business around it. And so I started making little

Nicole BZ: 00:08:03

mistakes. just annoying a typo here. Incorrect date on a

Nicole BZ: 00:08:08

Facebook post there and I mean, it feels trivial but when a

Nicole BZ: 00:08:12

million people are looking at that Facebook post as the

Nicole BZ: 00:08:14

announced for the next day, that's it is a big deal. And the

Nicole BZ: 00:08:18

more I tried to overcorrect, the the more frequent these mistakes

Nicole BZ: 00:08:24

were and it was one of those you know, my my friend and I were

Nicole BZ: 00:08:28

like, what's what's going on here, and she, thankfully, and

Nicole BZ: 00:08:31

don't get me wrong, this was probably one of the hardest

Nicole BZ: 00:08:33

conversations I've ever had. But she said, You know, I don't

Nicole BZ: 00:08:37

think you want this anymore. I don't think this isn't what

Nicole BZ: 00:08:40

where we started this wasn't you know, where you're setting up

Nicole BZ: 00:08:43

the gig and you're touring and you're managing your tour

Nicole BZ: 00:08:46

managing and you're with the band and you know, you're

Nicole BZ: 00:08:49

lumping it, and you're the one collecting the money at the end

Nicole BZ: 00:08:51

of the night. This is like, you know, you have a driver that

Nicole BZ: 00:08:54

picks you up and drops you off 30 minutes before the show and

Nicole BZ: 00:08:57

everybody like walks out on the stage and then like afterwards,

Nicole BZ: 00:09:00

you can figure out if you're gonna you know, so it was just a

Nicole BZ: 00:09:03

very different thing than what I had originally signed up for.

Nicole BZ: 00:09:05

And for most people, like that's where that's where they wanted

Nicole BZ: 00:09:08

to be. But for me, based on my behavior and how I was showing

Nicole BZ: 00:09:13

up in my day to day, it was very clear it's not where I wanted to

Nicole BZ: 00:09:16

be. And so to hear that reflected back at me again, lots

Nicole BZ: 00:09:19

of tears. But she she was incredible. And we were able to

Nicole BZ: 00:09:26

have like a very amicable and separation that you know, took a

Nicole BZ: 00:09:30

couple of months to figure out and it gave me the opportunity

Nicole BZ: 00:09:33

to really figure out where to from here. So yeah, and it's

Nicole BZ: 00:09:37

it's it's been my key indicator of burnout because my

Nicole BZ: 00:09:40

inclination is to work too much and over schedule. I love what I

Nicole BZ: 00:09:43

do. I'm so lucky that I get to do what I'm passionate about.

Nicole BZ: 00:09:48

It's still work and so when I start to double book, my

Nicole BZ: 00:09:51

calendar when I start to forget things that I think needed to

Nicole BZ: 00:09:57

get done that you know, fall under a certain threshold. I

Nicole BZ: 00:10:00

realized that I'm probably overdoing it, I need to take a

Nicole BZ: 00:10:02

step back. Or I just really need to check and make sure that this

Nicole BZ: 00:10:06

still feels good. This is still where I want to be and make

Nicole BZ: 00:10:09

changes accordingly.

Lori Saitz: 00:10:11

Yeah, so checking in with yourself I so what was it

Lori Saitz: 00:10:14

that you? What were some of the the tools maybe that you used or

Lori Saitz: 00:10:19

the things that you did to help you in that transition period,

Lori Saitz: 00:10:24

figure out, Okay, I don't want to do this anymore. But what is

Lori Saitz: 00:10:27

it that I do want to do?

Nicole BZ: 00:10:29

This is not a shameless plug, this is real

Nicole BZ: 00:10:32

talk, I hired a coach. So one of the things that I did do was a

Nicole BZ: 00:10:37

yoga a yoga teacher training, yoga had always been like my

Nicole BZ: 00:10:41

mental health once you know, I did the therapy and medication.

Nicole BZ: 00:10:45

And as I kind of, was able to create healthier habits. In my

Nicole BZ: 00:10:49

day to day life, I was able to step away from some of those

Nicole BZ: 00:10:53

other modalities of healing. And yoga was has been and will

Nicole BZ: 00:10:57

always be a huge part of that for me, at my yoga studio, we

Nicole BZ: 00:11:00

were doing sort of like a, you know, make make your year

Nicole BZ: 00:11:04

awesome, or some type of workshop and I met another

Nicole BZ: 00:11:06

coach, and I wasn't a coach yet. She She ended, she talked about

Nicole BZ: 00:11:14

her life and her lifestyle. And I said that that sounds

Nicole BZ: 00:11:17

familiar. I don't know, I don't know who I am, if I'm not a band

Nicole BZ: 00:11:20

manager, but I do know, like, I need a computer, and I need

Nicole BZ: 00:11:25

flexibility. And especially with traveling to be with my mom as

Nicole BZ: 00:11:28

well. I have to create a life that that looks that at least

Nicole BZ: 00:11:32

ticks those boxes, she just so happened to be a career coach.

Nicole BZ: 00:11:37

And I thought, okay, I'm making a major career transition, I'm

Nicole BZ: 00:11:39

going to get some help with this. That was, I mean, I still

Nicole BZ: 00:11:44

work with this woman, I am now a coach, I ended up studying at

Nicole BZ: 00:11:48

the same place where she studied. And that taught me not

Nicole BZ: 00:11:51

only I mean, it didn't just give me the space to figure out what

Nicole BZ: 00:11:55

next, but it stopped taught me how to how to iterate on that

Nicole BZ: 00:11:59

repeatedly, and how to check myself when I am getting into

Nicole BZ: 00:12:03

those spaces of burnout, or why I am letting fear make decisions

Nicole BZ: 00:12:06

for me and what fine feels like because fine, can be a useful

Nicole BZ: 00:12:12

barometer, especially for someone like me, who is who

Nicole BZ: 00:12:15

moves very, very quickly and takes really, really big risks.

Nicole BZ: 00:12:18

like is this fine? Is it healthy questions sometimes. But fine,

Nicole BZ: 00:12:24

is as a be all and end all are a place where I can stay, it

Nicole BZ: 00:12:27

doesn't work for me. So I've just got so many more tools in

Nicole BZ: 00:12:31

my belt now as a result of of asking for that help getting

Nicole BZ: 00:12:34

that support, and then applying that support as I've moved

Nicole BZ: 00:12:37

forward and created more expansion and growth.

Lori Saitz: 00:12:39

Yeah, but really yoga was kind of the catalyst

Lori Saitz: 00:12:43

for you that he wants you to this coach.

Nicole BZ: 00:12:46

Yeah, I signed up because I had been I'd literally

Nicole BZ: 00:12:49

been traveling and on the road for, like over 10 years. So I

Nicole BZ: 00:12:54

signed up for the teacher training so that I couldn't

Nicole BZ: 00:12:57

leave. Like I had like, an extended program. Yeah, it was a

Nicole BZ: 00:13:01

six month program. And it was every weekend. And you couldn't

Nicole BZ: 00:13:04

you couldn't miss one. Yeah. So that that's actually why why.

Nicole BZ: 00:13:11

And I'm one of those people that you know, I was in a yoga class,

Nicole BZ: 00:13:13

I think, just contemplating like the mistakes I had been making

Nicole BZ: 00:13:18

and my own happiness. And like I was existing in this space of

Nicole BZ: 00:13:21

fine, but aware that I was just existing. And then they

Nicole BZ: 00:13:25

announced the yoga teacher training. And then I looked into

Nicole BZ: 00:13:27

it, and then I had this conversation with my partner and

Nicole BZ: 00:13:29

I was like, Okay, well, this will this will anchor me this

Nicole BZ: 00:13:33

will give me the space, I now have a six month runway here

Nicole BZ: 00:13:36

until I take off again. And so yeah, it was a combination of

Nicole BZ: 00:13:39

things.

Lori Saitz: 00:13:40

It sounds like you took inspired action, though.

Nicole BZ: 00:13:44

100%

Lori Saitz: 00:13:45

That's that's one of the key things is not just doing

Lori Saitz: 00:13:48

something to do something, but you listened and followed kind

Lori Saitz: 00:13:54

of followed the breadcrumbs if you will, that to an inspired

Lori Saitz: 00:13:58

action that led you to the next thing.

Nicole BZ: 00:14:02

Yeah, and oftentimes the next thing didn't get like

Nicole BZ: 00:14:06

there was a breadcrumb. So I definitely got distracted and

Nicole BZ: 00:14:10

yoga teacher training and was like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to

Nicole BZ: 00:14:12

be a yoga teacher. And I stepped that out. And then I thought I

Nicole BZ: 00:14:18

realized fairly quickly, I don't love this. And then it's like,

Nicole BZ: 00:14:21

well, is it just because you're not good at it? Or is it just

Nicole BZ: 00:14:22

because this is something new? And it's like No, I mean,

Nicole BZ: 00:14:25

really, I did this to deepen my practice and to then enable

Nicole BZ: 00:14:28

myself to be able to practice anywhere, anytime I didn't need

Nicole BZ: 00:14:31

a class or a studio. That's freedom for me. But I definitely

Nicole BZ: 00:14:37

It is like I started walking down a path and I was like, Oh

Nicole BZ: 00:14:40

no, this isn't this wasn't this wasn't the This wasn't where I

Nicole BZ: 00:14:44

thought this inspired action would lead me or doesn't feel

Nicole BZ: 00:14:47

the way that I thought it would feel. So I'm going to take a few

Nicole BZ: 00:14:49

steps back and then step out something else. And that's how I

Nicole BZ: 00:14:53

ended up back in Colorado, which is another long story but that I

Nicole BZ: 00:14:57

was here and I had a month. On the side of a mountain, and I

Nicole BZ: 00:15:01

thought, this is where I want to be, and I don't have a plan. I

Nicole BZ: 00:15:05

don't have anything other than this feeling. And this

Nicole BZ: 00:15:08

inspiration of this is, this is what my next step is. And then

Nicole BZ: 00:15:13

that led to, you know, a whole bunch of different opportunities

Nicole BZ: 00:15:16

that I stepped out and then realized, you know, so it was it

Nicole BZ: 00:15:20

was a lot of trial. I don't want to say trial and error, but

Nicole BZ: 00:15:23

trying things really stepping into Is this where I want to be,

Nicole BZ: 00:15:26

How good does this feel? Is this fine? Or is this fabulous?

Lori Saitz: 00:15:30

How good does this feel? That is, yeah, that is

Lori Saitz: 00:15:32

such a great way to look at it into a question to ask yourself

Lori Saitz: 00:15:39

as you're doing it. And the other thing you mentioned, it is

Lori Saitz: 00:15:41

something that we've talked about in previous episodes and

Lori Saitz: 00:15:43

keeps coming up, is you don't have to see the whole staircase,

Lori Saitz: 00:15:47

just take one step, follow that one breadcrumb, if that's all

Lori Saitz: 00:15:52

you can see, then do that thing. And then the next thing will be

Lori Saitz: 00:15:56

opened up to you as you go. But you're not going to see the next

Lori Saitz: 00:15:59

thing until you take that first step. Follow that first

Lori Saitz: 00:16:02

breadcrumb, yep.

Nicole BZ: 00:16:04

On because if you're trying to do something

Nicole BZ: 00:16:06

completely new that you've never done before, and for a lot of

Nicole BZ: 00:16:09

the people that I work with, no one's ever done before. There

Nicole BZ: 00:16:13

isn't a map, there isn't a trail of breadcrumbs. There isn't a

Nicole BZ: 00:16:16

blueprint, there's one step forward. And then from there,

Nicole BZ: 00:16:20

you get to see the next step, but you're not going to know the

Nicole BZ: 00:16:23

how on the one. And it's it's, your brains going to tell you

Nicole BZ: 00:16:27

no, but your hearts gonna be like, yeah. Yeah, the more you

Nicole BZ: 00:16:32

can just tune into that compass and that guide of No, this feels

Nicole BZ: 00:16:35

good. take another step.

Lori Saitz: 00:16:37

Right, this feels good. And as you also mentioned,

Lori Saitz: 00:16:41

if it's not leading you where you thought it was going to go,

Lori Saitz: 00:16:44

or it doesn't feel good. As you continue, you can make a

Lori Saitz: 00:16:48

different decision. Nothing is permanent here. Nope.

Nicole BZ: 00:16:54

Well, in 2020 hindsight, when you look back,

Nicole BZ: 00:16:58

you've made it all work. That's why you're standing here right

Nicole BZ: 00:17:01

now ready to take another step. So chances are, you're gonna

Nicole BZ: 00:17:05

make this work, too. And yeah, you're either gonna win or

Nicole BZ: 00:17:09

learn. That's the way I look at it.

Lori Saitz: 00:17:11

Yeah, going back to when we were talking at the

Lori Saitz: 00:17:13

beginning about what's the definition of failure? That's

Lori Saitz: 00:17:17

Yeah,

Nicole BZ: 00:17:18

yeah. That's just standing still going. Giving up.

Lori Saitz: 00:17:22

Giving up? Yes. Yeah, we haven't. We haven't

Lori Saitz: 00:17:25

used that one as the definition, but I agree giving up. So when

Lori Saitz: 00:18:13

we talked before this interview, we were talking a little bit

Lori Saitz: 00:18:17

about defining, defining for yourself what your values are,

Lori Saitz: 00:18:23

and then using those as a filter to help you make decisions on

Lori Saitz: 00:18:26

how to go forward, since we're talking about making decisions,

Lori Saitz: 00:18:29

how have you used that? Or how do you advise people to use to

Lori Saitz: 00:18:34

tap into that as a tool?

Nicole BZ: 00:18:37

Love it. So in that, like, you don't know how you

Nicole BZ: 00:18:40

don't know and you just got to take one step forward. When you

Nicole BZ: 00:18:44

use your values as a filter, you're that step is going to be

Nicole BZ: 00:18:49

a positive, expansive step. So for me, it's fun, excellence,

Nicole BZ: 00:18:54

adventure and authenticity. Those Those are my values. And

Nicole BZ: 00:19:00

so if I can take those four boxes off, I'm saying yes, there

Nicole BZ: 00:19:04

have been a lot of things that if I hadn't put it through that

Nicole BZ: 00:19:07

filter, I use the example of working with my accountants.

Nicole BZ: 00:19:10

Okay. It is a tenuous relationship mainly I have I

Nicole BZ: 00:19:15

have four different businesses and so just me getting my books

Nicole BZ: 00:19:19

It took us a couple years just for the bookkeeping and their

Nicole BZ: 00:19:22

systems and my systems to align and then you know, there's

Nicole BZ: 00:19:25

deadlines there's expectations and when I was having kind of a

Nicole BZ: 00:19:29

temper tantrum because I think this was before everything

Nicole BZ: 00:19:32

that's been going on you know, we were we were pushing may and

Nicole BZ: 00:19:36

my taxes hadn't been filed and I thought you know, I'm gonna fire

Nicole BZ: 00:19:38

these guys. And I went through my value filter because it it

Nicole BZ: 00:19:42

you know, everybody knows like getting a new Firstly, you want

Nicole BZ: 00:19:44

to, I like loyalty. I like relationships. And I thought,

Nicole BZ: 00:19:48

Okay, this is uh, this is feels like a knee jerk reaction

Nicole BZ: 00:19:50

because I'm pissed off right now. I don't like making

Nicole BZ: 00:19:52

decisions, but I have a lot of energy around them. So let's use

Nicole BZ: 00:19:54

your values as a filter here. And is it fun? No, but like,

Nicole BZ: 00:19:58

it's working with your fountains fun? I don't know. Is it

Nicole BZ: 00:20:02

adventurous? Yeah, I mean, they're teaching me a hell of a

Nicole BZ: 00:20:04

lot. They have such a large base of clients, but they have a very

Nicole BZ: 00:20:10

strenuous system that they put you through. And yeah, I'm

Nicole BZ: 00:20:14

learning something new every day. That's my definition of an

Nicole BZ: 00:20:16

adventure. Is it authentic? I'm expressing my needs, they're

Nicole BZ: 00:20:20

expressing their needs there. I have a lot of trust with them.

Nicole BZ: 00:20:23

And is it excellent. I mean, they guarantee what they do, and

Nicole BZ: 00:20:27

they'll backup you if you ever get audited. And I was like,

Nicole BZ: 00:20:29

Okay, I'm going to step this out a little bit further, I'm going

Nicole BZ: 00:20:33

to give this three more months and just see where we land. And

Nicole BZ: 00:20:35

as I advocated for myself, I, I worked with one of their

Nicole BZ: 00:20:40

bookkeepers, so that at the to ensure that my bookkeeping was

Nicole BZ: 00:20:43

done in alignment with how their systems work, I got to learn

Nicole BZ: 00:20:45

more. And then I ended up getting a massive, massive

Nicole BZ: 00:20:49

return, because it turns out, they've been going through the

Nicole BZ: 00:20:51

last five years of my taxes, not just this, this tax year,

Nicole BZ: 00:20:54

because we'd created some new business structures. And it was

Nicole BZ: 00:20:58

like, Okay, great, you know, had I reacted in the moment of

Nicole BZ: 00:21:01

frustration and doubt I would have, I would have started down

Nicole BZ: 00:21:04

one path, but I used my values, they kept me in check. And then

Nicole BZ: 00:21:08

I ended up getting a really fun reward. So all all was good. And

Nicole BZ: 00:21:13

for, when you don't know the how on the one, you're you're

Nicole BZ: 00:21:16

looking for evidence, you're looking for proof, but you when

Nicole BZ: 00:21:18

you're creating something totally new, all you can do is

Nicole BZ: 00:21:21

look at the success you've got behind you and then trust you're

Nicole BZ: 00:21:23

going to step it out and values are just, I think, a fantastic

Nicole BZ: 00:21:27

parameter within which to go, yes, this feels right, or, you

Nicole BZ: 00:21:30

know what, like, this isn't an alignment. And it doesn't take

Nicole BZ: 00:21:35

off three or four, the my value, so it's it's a no for right now.

Nicole BZ: 00:21:39

And we'll see maybe things will change.

Lori Saitz: 00:21:41

Right? How did you arrive at those values like I

Lori Saitz: 00:21:46

did? Was there a exercise that you did that helped you

Lori Saitz: 00:21:50

understand what your values are?

Nicole BZ: 00:21:53

I love that question. So there are, I think, like

Nicole BZ: 00:21:57

every leadership psychology MBA program has an exercise akin to

Nicole BZ: 00:22:04

a values assessment, Brene Brown, and her Dare to Lead.

Nicole BZ: 00:22:08

I've not actually read that book, but she has a PDF online

Nicole BZ: 00:22:11

that I will direct people to that has a whole list of values.

Nicole BZ: 00:22:14

So it's it's a very, very common exercise. It's interesting, I

Nicole BZ: 00:22:18

find that a lot of people think about it from their personal

Nicole BZ: 00:22:21

lives, or they don't I believe that your values evolve. I mean,

Nicole BZ: 00:22:26

the easiest example as soon as you have children or potentially

Nicole BZ: 00:22:29

get married, or go through like a near death experience, like

Nicole BZ: 00:22:32

everything in your life kind of kind of changes, right? And so I

Nicole BZ: 00:22:36

believe that values evolve some you know, if you've read Ray

Nicole BZ: 00:22:39

Dalio principles, he would argue that there are overarching

Nicole BZ: 00:22:42

things that you're born with and never change, I'm sure maybe for

Nicole BZ: 00:22:45

some people. So when I start to feel a little bit panicky and

Nicole BZ: 00:22:49

weird, I call them my mid year crises. Because like, every six

Nicole BZ: 00:22:53

months, I'm like, Oh my god, what the hell am I doing? I'll

Nicole BZ: 00:22:56

do I'll just go back through values assessment. And it's

Nicole BZ: 00:22:58

basically just going okay, what's the most important thing

Nicole BZ: 00:23:01

if it's useful, there's a ton of lists online that you can just

Nicole BZ: 00:23:04

like go like sir list of values or values assessment, and you'll

Nicole BZ: 00:23:07

circle 15 to 20. And then you'll start to look at it like how did

Nicole BZ: 00:23:11

I arrive at authentic well, truth, commitment, loyalty, work

Nicole BZ: 00:23:17

ethic, a lot of these things that are really important to me,

Nicole BZ: 00:23:20

roll up into that term. And what I realized the reason authentic

Nicole BZ: 00:23:26

is the word that resonated is this idea that what I know to be

Nicole BZ: 00:23:28

true in this moment is an empowers empowering myself to be

Nicole BZ: 00:23:33

able to change my mind, and voice that new reality, whatever

Nicole BZ: 00:23:38

I need to that's really what authentic embodies for me, and

Nicole BZ: 00:23:41

it might mean something different to somebody else. The

Nicole BZ: 00:23:44

challenge is if we have 15 to 20 values, like that's just a lot

Nicole BZ: 00:23:47

of boxes to be continually like thinking about so if I am

Nicole BZ: 00:23:52

refining it, those those four have really carried me and

Nicole BZ: 00:23:56

probably for the last four or five years. Adventure was one an

Nicole BZ: 00:24:01

excellent, you know, those were kind of words that I've played

Nicole BZ: 00:24:04

around with, but adventure for me rolls up, spontaneity,

Nicole BZ: 00:24:07

challenge, yeah, learning, development growth. You know, so

Nicole BZ: 00:24:13

again, there's a lot that can kind of be included in in some

Nicole BZ: 00:24:18

of these terms. And you know, have have fun with that play

Nicole BZ: 00:24:21

with that. And it's, I find it really useful in business

Nicole BZ: 00:24:25

specifically, because your values are how your long term

Nicole BZ: 00:24:29

loyal customers, buyers, clients are going to connect with you

Nicole BZ: 00:24:32

and why they're going to keep coming back from so yeah.

Lori Saitz: 00:24:37

Right. Why? Because there are plenty of people who

Lori Saitz: 00:24:39

can offer what you offer, potentially. Why would they pay

Lori Saitz: 00:24:43

you and it always comes back to because of you they connect with

Lori Saitz: 00:24:48

you. And they're connecting with you on that level. I mean,

Lori Saitz: 00:24:53

hopefully on several levels, but it starts with the values. I

Lori Saitz: 00:24:56

like what you said about re evaluating the value Because

Lori Saitz: 00:25:00

they evolve, they change they do. And this is one of the

Lori Saitz: 00:25:04

things Yeah, when I'm working with my clients in the fog being

Lori Saitz: 00:25:07

find experiences, we start with values and getting clarity on

Lori Saitz: 00:25:14

where what it is that you really, truly want. And one of

Lori Saitz: 00:25:19

the foundational things to figuring that out is to

Lori Saitz: 00:25:22

understand what you value.

Nicole BZ: 00:25:25

Yep. When often times, I find that when we're

Nicole BZ: 00:25:29

experiencing friction and struggle in our day, there's a

Nicole BZ: 00:25:34

misalignment with our values. So we feel like we're having to

Nicole BZ: 00:25:38

sacrifice one of these things that's incredibly important to

Nicole BZ: 00:25:41

us. And what I find really interesting about the challenge

Nicole BZ: 00:25:45

of business and, and professional values, is, in our

Nicole BZ: 00:25:50

personal lives, we can just be like, nope, get out of my way

Nicole BZ: 00:25:53

like these are this is what's most important to me, like, take

Nicole BZ: 00:25:55

it or leave it. But in business, we're often working with people

Nicole BZ: 00:25:59

that we need to address the fact that we're having some friction

Nicole BZ: 00:26:04

here and negotiate it. And so a family is super important to

Nicole BZ: 00:26:07

you. And excellence is really important to me, and we've got a

Nicole BZ: 00:26:11

client who's just called at 5pm. On a Friday, I might get really

Nicole BZ: 00:26:15

upset about the fact that you want to go home and you might

Nicole BZ: 00:26:18

get really upset about the fact that my expectation is is that

Nicole BZ: 00:26:21

you would stay. And there's an interesting opportunity there

Nicole BZ: 00:26:24

for both of us to honor what's important, and then figure out

Nicole BZ: 00:26:27

how we're going to move forward with us without anyone ever

Nicole BZ: 00:26:30

having to sacrifice or then build resentment or, you know,

Nicole BZ: 00:26:33

all of the other things that kind of come along when we feel

Nicole BZ: 00:26:36

like we're martyring ourselves,

Lori Saitz: 00:26:38

yes, to look at it as a growth opportunity. Yeah, I

Lori Saitz: 00:26:42

was just having this conversation this afternoon with

Lori Saitz: 00:26:45

a friend about working with difficult clients. And my stance

Lori Saitz: 00:26:50

was, well, when you're an entrepreneur and you're running

Lori Saitz: 00:26:52

your own business, you can tell them to go away and not have to

Lori Saitz: 00:26:56

work with them. And her and her vision of it is well I see it as

Lori Saitz: 00:27:01

an opportunity to grow and that they're challenging me in some

Lori Saitz: 00:27:05

way. That gives me an opportunity to grow. So two

Lori Saitz: 00:27:11

different. I guess it depends how how much they're pushing

Lori Saitz: 00:27:14

you. Whether you whether it's worth it or you just don't wanna

Nicole BZ: 00:27:19

you know, the challenging client can mean a

Nicole BZ: 00:27:21

lot of different things it can mean someone who's like very

Nicole BZ: 00:27:24

much doubt space and they don't they don't know if they can do

Nicole BZ: 00:27:28

it. And so that is an opportunity for growth but if

Nicole BZ: 00:27:30

you have someone who's just making a ton of excuses, and not

Nicole BZ: 00:27:34

taking accountability and then blaming you for it, that's you

Nicole BZ: 00:27:37

know, like two very different values there are being honored.

Nicole BZ: 00:27:42

So

Lori Saitz: 00:27:42

yeah, and that's what our conversation was

Lori Saitz: 00:27:44

around. So it's interesting that you're bringing it up now.

Nicole BZ: 00:27:48

Yeah, isn't it funny how that always happens?

Lori Saitz: 00:27:50

Yeah, clearly the universe is sending us a message

Lori Saitz: 00:27:54

around that particular topic not just me because here we are

Lori Saitz: 00:27:58

sharing it with everybody now so exactly everyone benefits

Nicole BZ: 00:28:02

well, and this is normal like that it is a it is

Nicole BZ: 00:28:07

normal to feel frazzled and challenged and intimidated by

Nicole BZ: 00:28:12

what's happening and that's where again I find like this the

Nicole BZ: 00:28:15

values are an anchor and then all of the uncertainty that

Nicole BZ: 00:28:18

we're experiencing you can go back to them and go Okay, well

Nicole BZ: 00:28:22

Am I taking these off? Am I safe? Am I secure? Great. And if

Nicole BZ: 00:28:27

not, it's like well are these still important to me? Yeah,

Nicole BZ: 00:28:30

they are okay well then something in my experience needs

Nicole BZ: 00:28:33

to shift it's not me I'm not doing anything wrong here but

Nicole BZ: 00:28:36

like if I you know, my boss is continually asking me to stay or

Nicole BZ: 00:28:39

you know, my client is continually asking me to work

Nicole BZ: 00:28:42

late and family is my number one, then this isn't going to

Nicole BZ: 00:28:44

work that needs to shift and I can address that simply by

Nicole BZ: 00:28:48

saying like these are these are my values and these are kind of

Nicole BZ: 00:28:51

non negotiable right now. So how can we either shift what's

Nicole BZ: 00:28:54

happening externally, or just agree that this isn't a good fit

Nicole BZ: 00:28:58

any longer,

Lori Saitz: 00:28:59

Right. Yes, that's so good. All right. That is a

Lori Saitz: 00:29:05

fantastic place to leave this conversation however before we

Lori Saitz: 00:29:10

do I need to ask you what is the song that you listen to? When

Lori Saitz: 00:29:16

you need an extra boost of energy? You seem pretty

Lori Saitz: 00:29:19

energetic as as the as a person overall anyway, but when you

Lori Saitz: 00:29:22

need extra energy you need that boost of enthusiasm. What's the

Lori Saitz: 00:29:26

song that you can't sit still too?

Nicole BZ: 00:29:30

Well, so like as someone who worked in music

Nicole BZ: 00:29:32

picking one song I know is a challenge but the song that's

Nicole BZ: 00:29:37

really stuck with me is Gloria Gaynor is I will survive

Nicole BZ: 00:29:41

personally like 70s disco anytime I need to like a quick

Nicole BZ: 00:29:44

pick me up that is a go to that song for a lot of different

Nicole BZ: 00:29:48

reasons has been a part of my experience for since my

Nicole BZ: 00:29:53

childhood. And it's kind of an inside joke with some of my like

Nicole BZ: 00:29:58

inner people as well. So it's a pretty special tune but yeah for

Nicole BZ: 00:30:02

a lot of different reasons like that one just gets me going

Lori Saitz: 00:30:06

That is such a good one and then you you said the

Lori Saitz: 00:30:10

Gloria Gaynor version because the other Yeah, it's been redone

Lori Saitz: 00:30:13

a few times but that's the original.

Nicole BZ: 00:30:15

Because it's so good.

Lori Saitz: 00:30:17

It is it is so good. Yeah. Nicole, where can people

Lori Saitz: 00:30:22

get in touch with you if they want to continue this

Lori Saitz: 00:30:24

conversation?

Nicole BZ: 00:30:26

Um, well my favorite form of communication is text

Nicole BZ: 00:30:30

and so people can text me 720-704-4865. I love solving

Nicole BZ: 00:30:35

business conundrums. So hit me up with a problem you're

Nicole BZ: 00:30:39

experiencing in your business. I'm on all the socials, my

Nicole BZ: 00:30:43

handles the BZ channel, and my website is Nicole BZ dot com.

Lori Saitz: 00:30:48

Okay, I will put links to all of that in the show

Lori Saitz: 00:30:52

notes. Thank you so much for joining me today on Fine is a

Lori Saitz: 00:30:56

4-Letter Word.

Nicole BZ: 00:30:56

Oh absolute pleasure. And thank you for creating this

Nicole BZ: 00:30:58

resource for your listeners. And thank you listeners for

Nicole BZ: 00:31:02

listening. This is just so powerful and I just appreciate

Nicole BZ: 00:31:06

everything you're doing for the community.